Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

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rev
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Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#1 Post by rev » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:59 pm

Im bored. Was thinking with talk about a ferry at Glenelg coming up again why dont they go further and build a cruise ship terminal too. Much better location for it then outer harbor, better first impression of Adelaide for tourists.

Turn the Glenelg jetty into a proper pier. Ferries on one side, cruise ships on the other. Retail, dining & entertainment in the middle.

Flinders Ports can take over the old cruise ship terminal and expand the container facility or whatever.

Cape Jervois can be downgraded to serve the local communities with smaller more economical ferries, and the bigger ferries moved up to Glenelg. Tie in the ferry operations with the operating of aspects of the pier it self so that the cost of catching a ferry across the Gulf or down to KI isnt as cost prohibitive.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#2 Post by Ho Really » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:36 pm

There have been three previous threads on this subject:

Glenelg Tourist Shipping Terminal

VIS: Glenelg ferry terminal

Glenelg dock

Glenelg is definitely more inviting than Outer Harbor. The only issue with cruise ships is that you won't get any of the big ones done at Glenelg for several reasons. Firstly, Flinders Ports are currently widening and dredging the shipping channel so post-panamax ships can use the cruise and container terminals. Secondly dredging a similar channel at Glenelg would be close to impossible. However if they dredged one for smaller luxury vessels with draughts of 5 metres it may be possible. The major issue would still be environmental. How much damage will be done to the sea grasses.

Ferries are a different proposition. The twin-hulled catamaran ferries have shallow draughts and would not need a deep channel and harbour. In both cases ferries and cruise ships road traffic access to and from the harbour would have to be solved.

Anyhow it's a concept we should look into further.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#3 Post by rev » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:48 pm

lol Adelaide and damn grass :P

How deep is the water at the end of the jetty? Had a look at the ships coming in this cruise season, up to around 8~m draught at most.
Extend a new more solid 'pier' further out then the current jetty, slap a tram line on it? :banana:

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#4 Post by SBD » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:10 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:48 pm
lol Adelaide and damn grass :P

How deep is the water at the end of the jetty? Had a look at the ships coming in this cruise season, up to around 8~m draught at most.
Extend a new more solid 'pier' further out then the current jetty, slap a tram line on it? :banana:
I'm pretty sure that by the time a new pier is long enough to be in water suitable to tie a cruise ship to (which means that 300m of the pier is next to water 10m deep), it will be outside of "Holdfast Bay". It would need to be strong enough to carry trams and hold a ship steady on rough days. It also has to support the trucks delivering food etc to the ship.

I suspect that the cost of such a facility means it would need to support more than just the cruise industry, which I suspect means it should be built near an industrial area. If it is to replace Cape Jervis ferries it has to have the truck access they need too, with safe road access even with a cruise ship in port.

There is probably a good reason the current passenger berth is where it is. It's just a pity it looks so run down and abandoned in a huge carpark because the berth next to it is ideal for roll-on, roll-off ships. A couple of new industrial ports in the state would be a great benefit.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#5 Post by rev » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm

The first Glenelg Jetty was 381 metres long with a T-head and wooden lighthouse. This section was destroyed by fire in 1873. In 1906 a three-storey pavilion was added at the end of the jetty and railway tracks were laid along its length to service coastal shipping. The aquarium was built in 1929, showcasing fish, sea lions and sharks. In 1948 a major storm swept through Holdfast Bay, destroying the jetty and leaving just the pavilion and aquarium, they were later removed. In 1969 the current, much shorter, jetty was constructed.
https://southaustralia.com/products/ade ... nelg-jetty

Steam ships also ran a ferry service from Glenelg to Kangaroo Island back in those days. It even had a 3 story kiosk.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#6 Post by SBD » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:46 am

rev wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:18 pm
The first Glenelg Jetty was 381 metres long with a T-head and wooden lighthouse. This section was destroyed by fire in 1873. In 1906 a three-storey pavilion was added at the end of the jetty and railway tracks were laid along its length to service coastal shipping. The aquarium was built in 1929, showcasing fish, sea lions and sharks. In 1948 a major storm swept through Holdfast Bay, destroying the jetty and leaving just the pavilion and aquarium, they were later removed. In 1969 the current, much shorter, jetty was constructed.
https://southaustralia.com/products/ade ... nelg-jetty

Steam ships also ran a ferry service from Glenelg to Kangaroo Island back in those days. It even had a 3 story kiosk.
It needed to be 381 metres to support coastal shipping. How much longer would it have needed to be to support international clipper ships then, and how much longer still to support a modern cruise liner?

I have no problem with the concept, but can't imagine it being even remotely cost effective. I wonder if Port Stanvac is deeper closer to shore?

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#7 Post by Ho Really » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:47 am

SBD wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:46 am
It needed to be 381 metres to support coastal shipping. How much longer would it have needed to be to support international clipper ships then, and how much longer still to support a modern cruise liner?

I have no problem with the concept, but can't imagine it being even remotely cost effective. I wonder if Port Stanvac is deeper closer to shore?
In a straight line at 90 degrees from the end of the Holdfast Shores marina breakwater it is approximately 1.42 nautical miles (about 2.63 kilometres) to the 10 metre depth mark (32.8 feet depth). See map here below.

Image

Dredging a channel to a depth of about 10 metres is not impossible. Like I said previously the main issue would be environmental. A shorter channel at a depth of 5 metres (16.4 feet on the map) is more realistic. This will allow smaller expedition-style cruise ships to come alongside a pier and marina. The distance from the beacon at the end of the breakwater is approximately 0.33 of a nautical mile (611 metres). There would be a fair bit of dregding to create a 5 mtere depth harbour and turning basin. Of course all protected by a breakwater from the winter southwesterly squalls.

Port Stanvac is different proposition altogether. Depth there is slightly over 10 metres at the end of the jetty. However it isn't protected from bad weather. Not ideal for cruise ships. Besides it's not very welcoming.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#8 Post by Ho Really » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:42 am

Here's one of a few concepts I put together a few years ago when there was talk about a ferry terminal at Glenelg. This one doesn't include moorings for large yachts. I also thought the terminal could house an aquarium or a museum. It would have cafes, shops etc. Possibly room for conventions and events. The breakwater would be in concrete with vehicle access to its extreme point. The ferry basin is shallower than the 6 metre cruise ship basin.

Image

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#9 Post by andynguyen » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:05 am

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:42 am
Here's one of a few concepts I put together a few years ago when there was talk about a ferry terminal at Glenelg. This one doesn't include moorings for large yachts. I also thought the terminal could house an aquarium or a museum. It would have cafes, shops etc. Possibly room for conventions and events. The breakwater would be in concrete with vehicle access to its extreme point. The ferry basin is shallower than the 6 metre cruise ship basin.

Image

Cheers
We could add in a new marina at or near the new ferry terminal to house sailing yachts as well! The Adelaide Sailing Club could also move to Glenelg, given its attractiveness and less aircraft noise compared to their current site at West Beach.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#10 Post by Ho Really » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:54 pm

andynguyen wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:05 am
We could add in a new marina at or near the new ferry terminal to house sailing yachts as well! The Adelaide Sailing Club could also move to Glenelg, given its attractiveness and less aircraft noise compared to their current site at West Beach.
Absolutely. Any expansion is welcomed.

I have other concepts that include moorings for megayachts, meaning yachts of around 40 metres (131 feet) and above. A segment of the yachting and cruising market we should also look into. Kangaroo Island and our Gulfs make interesting yachting during the summer months and this should be encouraged.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#11 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:21 pm

We would have the problem of particulate and SOx pollution from cruise ships right in the heart of Glenelg. I think they're best kept out of sight, out of our air.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#12 Post by Goodsy » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:42 am
Here's one of a few concepts I put together a few years ago when there was talk about a ferry terminal at Glenelg. This one doesn't include moorings for large yachts. I also thought the terminal could house an aquarium or a museum. It would have cafes, shops etc. Possibly room for conventions and events. The breakwater would be in concrete with vehicle access to its extreme point. The ferry basin is shallower than the 6 metre cruise ship basin.


Cheers
That plan would make the Glenelg beach 600m wide after all the sand gets trapped by the breakwater

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#13 Post by Ho Really » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:46 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:21 pm
We would have the problem of particulate and SOx pollution from cruise ships right in the heart of Glenelg. I think they're best kept out of sight, out of our air.
There's also shore power that will limit any pollution issues. Newer cruise ships also use LNG.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#14 Post by Ho Really » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:49 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:15 pm
That plan would make the Glenelg beach 600m wide after all the sand gets trapped by the breakwater
That's unavoidable if you want a protected harbour and marina. Besides sand can be carted away at the end of every winter. Not an insurmountable issue.

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Re: Glenelg Ferry & Cruise ship terminal

#15 Post by gnrc_louis » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:46 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:49 pm
Goodsy wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:15 pm
That plan would make the Glenelg beach 600m wide after all the sand gets trapped by the breakwater
That's unavoidable if you want a protected harbour and marina. Besides sand can be carted away at the end of every winter. Not an insurmountable issue.

Cheers
They already do this on metro beaches - it’s costly. Why worsen something which is already a fairly major problem.

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