SA Economy

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Vee
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Vee »

I noticed the Submarines discussion is on both the Local Economy thread and the Official Defence thread. Applicable to both.

My post on the Official Defence thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1387&start=225#p143295
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Waewick »

as a capitalist by nature, this pains me to say.

but should the State looks at buying Arrium? with guaranteed income from the subs (likely) why wouldn't we use it as a state asset as part of a wider training and development tool?
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Nathan »

Well looks like someone at the Daily Telegraph got a bug up their arse:

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Re: SA Economy

Post by Waewick »

sadly, it isnt far from the truth.

we are fundamentally a failed state relying on federation money to survive.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Nathan »

I'm just sick of the petty sniping between states. Sure, some jokey rivalry is fine, especially with sports, but what does this kind of aggressive shitcanning do to benefit anyone? It creates a toxic culture which sadly carries over to business.

Never mind the numerous false facts in that particular article (are we still taking a Gizmodo article on the cost of the hospital, which was based on a very incomplete table from Emporis, as gospel?)
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Re: SA Economy

Post by claybro »

Nathan wrote:I'm just sick of the petty sniping between states. Sure, some jokey rivalry is fine, especially with sports, but what does this kind of aggressive shitcanning do to benefit anyone? It creates a toxic culture which sadly carries over to business.

Never mind the numerous false facts in that particular article (are we still taking a Gizmodo article on the cost of the hospital, which was based on a very incomplete table from Emporis, as gospel?)
As a South Australian living in WA, I have followed this project announcement with interest, not least because it has been covered widely in the media over here (WA hoping to snare more of the subs work). SA is the state which put the most work in to securing the subs way back when. States like WA QLD and NSW weren't really serious and so Adelaide got the gig on the Collins Class subs. Now when things are slowing down in the other states, they see it as a right to muscle in. fair enough, but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.
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Re: SA Economy

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claybro wrote:but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.
Interesting. I'm not seeing or hearing that from within. Perhaps i'm not reading sufficient from news.com.au?
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Re: SA Economy

Post by claybro »

Wayno wrote:Interesting. I'm not seeing or hearing that from within. Perhaps i'm not reading sufficient from news.com.au?
You need not look too much further than some comments on this forum. Most comments hardly read like wholehearted support for the project. or what it means for SA.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by rev »

claybro wrote: As a South Australian living in WA, I have followed this project announcement with interest, not least because it has been covered widely in the media over here (WA hoping to snare more of the subs work). SA is the state which put the most work in to securing the subs way back when. States like WA QLD and NSW weren't really serious and so Adelaide got the gig on the Collins Class subs. Now when things are slowing down in the other states, they see it as a right to muscle in. fair enough, but what has surprised me most is the reaction to this announcement FROM SA. Somehow there are many over there trying to put a negative spin on this, or political point scoring. For god sake people....$50Billion!! Lets just shut up, be happy, take the money and run! I can almost smell the stench of negativity from over here, and it is embarrassing as a South Ozzie.
Embarrassing? How so mate?

People are rightly skeptical about this. We've heard this all before. 12 submarines will be built in Adelaide. Just happened to be an election last time we heard it as well.
This time they've appointed a builder. A builder who has a preference for building the first few back in France.

Nick Xenophon and Labor asking to see the contract, asking for specific details that say all 12 will be built in Adelaide, is not embarrassing, it is looking out for our states interests.
It is in our interests to have all 12 built here, not 9 or 8 built here and the first few in France.

$50 billion. And how much of that is actually going to be invested in South Australia building these submarines?

There's sweet nothing on details yet. Why should we celebrate and break out in song and dance over this?
We've been down this road before. We've been burnt before.
People aren't in the mood for empty promises and vague contracts with no details.
People want things set in concrete before they get excited.
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Re: SA Economy

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Compare the carping and questioning of the details and the implication of a political stunt in SA, then I open the West Australian at lunch today, and out falls a glossy brochure, talking UP WA's contribution to the subs and warships and the billions in maintenance contracts to flow in WA and pages of pictures with articles all promoting WA's shipbuilding and defence maintenance capabilities. One would think WA had won the lions share of the work. It is just a completely different vibe than what is coming out of SA, almost like SA is embarrassed to have won this contract on political pork barrelling, and the usual self doubts are creeping in before it even gets off the ground.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Wayno »

The media simply writes what they believe will sells papers and online subscriptions, and yeah sure - this means presenting differently to state based mentalities which have built up over time.

News.com.au sites (adelaidenow vs telegraph vs others) also regularly write conflicting stories that play states against each other, and too often present these 'opinion pieces' as 'news'. It's a race to the bottom. Might as well make reference to godwin's law in all articles.

Fairfax isn't as bad, but aren't angels either. I get my news fix from Indaily.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by Nathan »

Wayno wrote:Fairfax isn't as bad, but aren't angels either. I get my news fix from Indaily.
Yup. Indaily for local news, Guardian for national/world news.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by urban »

claybro wrote:Compare the carping and questioning of the details and the implication of a political stunt in SA, then I open the West Australian at lunch today, and out falls a glossy brochure, talking UP WA's contribution to the subs and warships and the billions in maintenance contracts to flow in WA and pages of pictures with articles all promoting WA's shipbuilding and defence maintenance capabilities. One would think WA had won the lions share of the work. It is just a completely different vibe than what is coming out of SA, almost like SA is embarrassed to have won this contract on political pork barrelling, and the usual self doubts are creeping in before it even gets off the ground.
SA had all those articles and glossy brochures when the subs were promised before the last election. Then for 3 years SA looked pretty stupid when it looked like we would only get a tiny portion of the work.

SA had all those articles and glossy brochures when Olympic Dam was approved. Now for 5 years SA has looked pretty stupid when nothing has eventuated.

The northern suburbs had all those articles and glossy brochures when the railway electrification was promised. Then for 3 years they looked pretty stupid when the funding was removed.

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Re: SA Economy

Post by phenom »

A few of my observations:

1. There's a definite 'meme' out there - maybe enhanced by Abbott and Hockey's behaviour - that somehow SA benefits disproportionately from largesse from elsewhere and I think some people do feel we 'need to stand on our own two feet'. The problem with that is that every other state and territory has their hand out too - and SA just isn't as big a beneficiary of (say) Federal dollars as assumed. Case in point: The GST relativities we hear about are only a (significant) part of total Federal funding to the States - when you look at Federal government figures for total funding to States then SA still gets more than we pay in but not by as much as thought.

2. We are poorly served (as everyone here knows) by our limited local media, particularly the Advertiser. They've sacked so many staff (oddly enough not reported on by them!) that I'm surprised they can even keep the lights on. We got headlines like 'Japan demands explanation' after the subs announcement as if a major international crisis was brewing when in fact it was simply a request for feedback - Japan is new to supplying international arms and is on a steep learning curve. Then they are playing up the 'other states are outraged'. I'm sure their AdelaideNow equivalent commenters are because they don't understand a lot of this work will also be sourced from places in Australia other than SA.

3. I agree with rev and urban above that to some extent I think people are just profoundly cynical - and honestly, with good reason to some extent. However I think the 'near death experience' of the Liberals in terms of what happens when you openly tip the bucket on a State - which is, ironically, only relevant Federally because they have burnt so much political capital since being elected 2.5 years ago - has made this one of those things where they will more or less have to follow through now. We'll still get plenty of 'scandals' though with every little twist and turn - see point two above.
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Re: SA Economy

Post by rev »

Yeh the whole Japan thing was blown out of proportion to the point it was almost a fabrication.
The Japanese were disappointed they didn't win the contract, as anyone would be when it's a $50 billion contract.
This would have been their first export contract for weapons since WW2 I believe. As you said they wanted feedback so they could in future improve their process in tendering for contracts. Nothing at all wrong with that.

But this is South Australia, where we are stuck with a clumsy Labor government, a non-existent Liberal opposition(unless you consider being a naysayer an effective opposition), and News Corp propaganda and dodgy journalism. Could be worse I suppose.
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