Another widespread power outage in SA

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Vee
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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Reliable renewable electricity is possible if we make smart decisions now
The Australian government is reviewing our electricity market to make sure it can provide secure and reliable power in a rapidly changing world. Faced with the rise of renewable energy and limits on carbon pollution, The Conversation has asked experts what kind of future awaits the grid.
For those interested in this topic, this article by Bonnie McBain provides perspectives on energy security, reliability and the role of renewables.
The Conversation:
https://theconversation.com/reliable-re ... -now-68585
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

Post by stumpjumper »

bits and Vee - The question is what a reliable baseload supply will cost. It is no advantage to have a reliable system at an uncompetitive cost for baseload generation.

If we could have reliable baseload generation at an affordable cost, clearly we would not have a problem. Solar PV panels have come down in cost by a factor of 100 since 1977 (US$76 to US$0.30I $ per watt, but baseload generation (or sufficient, economical generation by renewables and storage) remains a problem.

If it were easy, even Labor would have solved the problem in SA.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

Post by monotonehell »

Stumpjumper - I don't understand your last few posts.

What is the problem that you think you are trying to solve?
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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Related to the cost of wind power vs other power:

https://blog.google/topics/environment/ ... le-energy/

"in 2017 Google will reach 100% renewable energy for our global operations — including both our data centers and offices"

"Today, we are the world’s largest corporate buyer of renewable power, with commitments reaching 2.6 gigawatts (2,600 megawatts) of wind and solar energy. That’s bigger than many large utilities and more than twice as much as the 1.21 gigawatts it took to send Marty McFly back to the future."

"Over the last six years, the cost of wind and solar came down 60 percent and 80 percent, respectively, proving that renewables are increasingly becoming the lowest cost option. "
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

Post by eKwatee »

This article which contain snippets from other articles shows us where we're heading with our power supply etc
South Australia’s Wind Power Debacle: Destroying an Already Battered Economy
full article https://stopthesethings.com/2016/12/05/ ... d-economy/
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

Post by Goodsy »

eKwatee wrote:This article which contain snippets from other articles shows us where we're heading with our power supply etc
South Australia’s Wind Power Debacle: Destroying an Already Battered Economy
full article https://stopthesethings.com/2016/12/05/ ... d-economy/

we're not here to debate the wind industry, we're here to DESTROY it!


Yeah... that's an unbiased website
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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I love those humorous parody articles.

Oh wait...
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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"Several statewide blackouts(the last on the first day of summer)"
"worst unemployment in nation by a whopping margin"

2 paragraphs in and I just can't bring myself to read any more. It is just made up nonsense created to entertain those that know no better.
It is unfair to prey on the weak minded.

Unemployment sucks but South Australia is not in a one horse race.
http://lmip.gov.au/default.aspx?LMIP/LF ... oymentRate
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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That article & site can be safely ignored, as it's nothing but unsubstantiated bollocks.
Stop These Things (STT) is an anti-wind website promoting anecdotes and pseudoscience intended to cast doubt on the effectiveness of wind energy. The website also promotes claims alleging people living in close proximity to wind turbines suffer assorted detrimental health conditions.

The creator and moderator of the website is unknown and unaccountable yet readily posts any unfounded, ill informed attack, distortion or blatant lie directed at pro-wind individuals or groups.
The website does not pretend to be objective, it only posts comments and opinions that are opposed to wind energy while it actively blocks any comments that favour wind energy or contradict claims made on the blog. STT does not allow those it criticises to have a right of reply.
To date STT has consistently denied the effectiveness of renewable energy, it promotes opinions from climate change denialists [8] such as Maurice Newman [9], it frequently mentions and criticises subsidies but fails to mention much larger subsidies provided to the fossil fuel and nuclear industries.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/%2 ... _Things%22
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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Unsubstantiated articles do neither side any favours in the renewables debate. However if the stated aim of the SA energy mix was to reduce emisiions, only to have to rely on power generated by brown coal (the most polluting source), then I question if that is really the reason for all the wind farms. With Victoria about to embark on wind farms, apparently the answer is now another interconnector toNSW, a state which will continue with coal generation and amongst other things gas from fracking. With large scale industrial battery storage decades away, something needs to done and fast. Telling large commercial users to "build their own".backup gas fired stations is not the answer in an already over regulated and costly state. Also, continuing to blame the vics for pulling the plug, does not address the issue.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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So another report from the energy market regulator says our reliance on renewables did play a part in the whole state going black.

As a result of the black out, two gas power stations must now be online around the clock.

They are saying an interconnecter between SA-VIC or SA-NSW at a cost of nearly a billion and another one between TAS-VIC at a similar cost are needed. Obviously it's about more then just South Australias energy security.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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The part the wind turbines played was voluntarily shutting down, after more than three chaotic events occurred, over a short time, in the rest of the network.

The reason the gas-fired power stations were off-line was because they were voluntarily shut down because the power coming from the Heywood interconnector was far cheaper (subsidised).

So the reasons for the power outages have been network problems, not renewable problems.

The network problems exist because of government decisions in the past.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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monotonehell wrote:So the reasons for the power outages have been network problems, not renewable problems.
the fact remains though, renewables alone are intermittent and cannot alone provide consistent power to the grid at present. To spruik green credentials whilst sourcing nearly half of SAs power from brown coal is a bit cheeky, especially when the answer to ongoing power outages is for another interconnector to NSW which also produces much of its power from coal. The real problems will arise when Victoria, also on a green frenzy forces the shutdown of it's coal fired power stations as is happening now as they are priced out of the marked by their increasing use of subsidised wind power. Interesting times ahead, unless they can get large scale storage up and running quickly.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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claybro wrote:
monotonehell wrote:So the reasons for the power outages have been network problems, not renewable problems.
the fact remains though, renewables alone are intermittent and cannot alone provide consistent power to the grid at present. To spruik green credentials whilst sourcing nearly half of SAs power from brown coal is a bit cheeky, especially when the answer to ongoing power outages is for another interconnector to NSW which also produces much of its power from coal. The real problems will arise when Victoria, also on a green frenzy forces the shutdown of it's coal fired power stations as is happening now as they are priced out of the marked by their increasing use of subsidised wind power. Interesting times ahead, unless they can get large scale storage up and running quickly.
Absolutely. The implementation has been short sighted. Again - a network problem and a decision problem.
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Re: Another widespread power outage in SA

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monotonehell wrote:Absolutely. The implementation has been short sighted. Again - a network problem and a decision problem.
Unfortunately though, it would appear the "network" is being infiltrated by more and more wind and solar power without the technology to store excess power. The storm induced whole of state blackout could feasibly be blamed on multiple factors including the network and weather. The most recent blackout could not. A combination of no wind or sun (common during most nights) means SA had to rely on other base load sources. There appears to be no large scale plan by any state for new generation based on coal gas or nuclear. Sa's lifeline to Victoria is about to become more intermittent as they generate more power from wind. It is feasible when SE Australia is sitting under a large high pressure during winter and the sun is low in the sky, there will be little available capacity from wind or solar for days at a time. No amount of network rejigging can overcome a lack of generation, and therefore current renewable technology has been proven to be not up to the task of large scale industrial energy requirements. Not saying it never will, but ignoring what is happening will not help in the short term.
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