[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

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vik_man
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by vik_man »

i like it.

i would hate to see Vic Square upgraded with some sort of gimmicky centre piece (like Fed Square)

i hope for it to be more of a Hyde Park/Central Park type of public place, which is what this proposal seems to be in line with

a pity about the traffic though, the noise will make it hard to relax.
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Xaragmata »

SRW wrote:Wow. Cottoned on to this pretty late.

On the other hand, I have concerns about the pit-like nature of the events lawn, which (on the face of it) doesn't seem particularly conducive to an accessible space. Is it envisaged that there will be access to the lawn directly from the north (the area from which many people would be coming)? Would not it be better to allow some sort of amphitheatre-like stepping into the lawn, if not for the full perimeter then at least in parts -- at the stage area, for instance, when not in use?
Seems like a valid concern for larger events, such as TDU and Classic Adelaide that might be a bit cramped, and the Solar Challenge that currently
enters VS from the north, where the 3 Rivers fountain will obstruct, together with the sunken lawn. Not things that cannot be overcome, of course,
but worth some thought.

Classic Adelaide

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TDU

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Solar Challenge

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stelaras
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by stelaras »

:applause: to all involved with the submission, i hope it goes well

I did try to add some comments using the link but it appears i do not have the appropriate permission to do so..Perhaps i can add a few comments here. I have not had a chance to read all of comments raised by members here so if i appear repetitive i apologise.

Grote street/Wakefield street:

In order to maximise the useage of the redeveloped square and truly make it a meeting point, it makes more sense to me that the square is completely closed off from all traffic all the time. Ultimately it would be great to tunnel under the square, however, this wont happen. We all need to remember that before November 1972 the now Rundle Mall was Rundle Street and traffic flowed through there. Don Dunstan at the time decided to close the street off due to congestion caused by an increasing number of pedestrians.

If the redeveloped square's primary function is to attract people to the square then we will most certainly have an increase in congestion.

Pedestrian access to the square is also an issue particularly with 4 lanes of traffic around the square. There is mention in the plan to reduce to 3 lanes, i believe this is not enough and perhaps 2 lanes is better. One has to observe Fed Square in Melbourne, there are two lanes of traffic either side of Fed square and it is chaotic at the best of times. This poses huge problems for both cars and pedestrians. Perhaps access to the square could involve multiple walkways (above or below ground).
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rhino
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by rhino »

Aidan wrote:
rhino wrote:
stumpjumper wrote:to ramble on - Adelaide's major problem is in Light's design. For various practical reasons the centre of energy of the new city quickly drifted to the northern edge of the grid, instead of staying around Victoria Square and the grand boulevard of Grote/Wakefield streets, so we're left without a proper civic centre.
I have to agree with this. Dare I say it, Colonel Light got it wrong. He didn't take the distance from the water source (the Torrens) into account when he laid out his grand design, and the result is that our "City" (CBD) is not centred on Victoria Square. Perhaps if he'd let the Torrens run through Victoria Square on his plan .... but we can't fix that now. While I do like this plan for Victoria Square, I can't help feeling that things like the big screen and the big events would be better held down by the river, close to the railway station, under the bridge to Adelaide Oval (Elder Park, in fact).
Are you sure this has anything to do with Light's plan? It seems highly unlikely to me, as mains water was introduced just 20 years after the City was founded. I always understood the drift to be mainly due to the railway station location. The parliament location is also a significant factor.

Light got it right when he located the City away from the river. As well as the risk of flooding, buildings by the river would be more prone to earthquake damage.

Once we get a subway, the heart of the City is likely to move back to Victoria Square, though the northern side of the City will probably always be more densely developed than the southern side.

As I understand it, Light's vision was for King William St and Grote/Wakefield Streets to be not only grand boulevards, but the main commercial streets of the city. Grote/Wakefield Streets' distance from the water supply meant that both the commercial and residential part of the city to fill up first, was Rundle/Hindley Streets. By the time reticulated water arrived 20 years later, these streets (especially Rundle) were already established as the commercial heart of the city, and after 150 years, Grote/Wakefield has not been able to reclaim that title.

Subway? What subway? And why will it bring the commercial heart of the city to Victoria Square? Do you not think that there would be a station convenient to the current commercial heart of the city, and if there is, why would that heart move?
cheers,
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Wayno
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Wayno »

Wayno wrote:to clarify, please contribute your ideas & input to the VSQ submission document over here ==> http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... m.php?f=21
hi all, the above thread is now open for your submission ideas. Apologies for the temporary inconvenience.
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Stubbo »

Xaragmata wrote:
SRW wrote:Wow. Cottoned on to this pretty late.

On the other hand, I have concerns about the pit-like nature of the events lawn, which (on the face of it) doesn't seem particularly conducive to an accessible space. Is it envisaged that there will be access to the lawn directly from the north (the area from which many people would be coming)? Would not it be better to allow some sort of amphitheatre-like stepping into the lawn, if not for the full perimeter then at least in parts -- at the stage area, for instance, when not in use?
Seems like a valid concern for larger events, such as TDU and Classic Adelaide that might be a bit cramped, and the Solar Challenge that currently
enters VS from the north, where the 3 Rivers fountain will obstruct, together with the sunken lawn. Not things that cannot be overcome, of course,
but worth some thought.

Classic Adelaide

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Image


TDU

Image


Image


Solar Challenge

Image


Image


I believe that Vic Square should not be the focal point for large events such as Tour Down Under, World Solar Challenge and the Classic Adelaide. I believe that these events need better facilities and mount a significant argument for a permanent building in Vic Park. Instead of a demountable building servicing only the Clipsal, there should be permanent facilities that will be utilised heavily by these other events (and allow planning to occur for further possible events)

Vic Square should be for people orientated events such as concerts, performances, rallies, markets etc. having vehicle orientated events access Vic Square would go against the push to make it pedestrian friendly.

I mean you could have some tie in with Vic Park, eg two v8 cars for the launch (ditto for classic adelaide) but vic square looks ugly when these events are held with the transportable buildings, it would be far better serviced with permanent facilities. It would also make a far better impression with overseas visitors, especially for the tour down under.
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by stumpjumper »

Are you sure this has anything to do with Light's plan? It seems highly unlikely to me, as mains water was introduced just 20 years after the City was founded. I always understood the drift to be mainly due to the railway station location. The parliament location is also a significant factor.
I'd say it was partly the cost of carrying water from the river to the businesses and houses which meant that Rundle Street became a street of businesses instead of a residential street as expected.

The other point is the proximity of the 'drop off point' for the bullock drays from the Port. This was around the NW part of the city.

Light didn't know much about trains and apparently made no provision for a railway line or station. When the line was built, it would have been one more reason to develop the northern edge of the city.

A lesser reason would be the proximity for some businesses to domestic customers in North Adelaide.
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Prince George
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Prince George »

Noticed on the website for the proposal:
An information session will be held in the Square on Thursday 20 May, from 11:00am to 2:00pm. This is an opportunity for you to learn more about the draft Regeneration Masterplan and have an informal discussion with the project staff.
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Prince George
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Prince George »

I also just found that there's a longer (88 page) detailed masterplan - http://www.adelaidecitycouncil.com/ADCC ... report.pdf. There is significantly more discussion and detail than in the 40 page version.
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Joscha »

Adelaide is a beautiful city that we are proud of and that deserves to be seen and highlighted. Unfortunately, the designers of the new Victoria Square proposal don't seem to agree. Their design blocks out any visual link between the city and the square.

There are some beautiful historical buildings surrounding the square. The North side of the square has a beautiful face with the Adelaide Post Office and the Medina Hotel. Also surrounding the square are the Cathedral of Saint Francis Xavier, the Supreme Court and the Magistrates Court.

The nature of the design that has been proposed for Victoria Square is such that it is completely focused in on itself. It is an enclosed, inward-looking space, bordered by trees that block out any view of the city. It turns away from the city, instead of reaching out to the city. It doesn't celebrate the city.

I believe the city deserves to be seen. There should be interactions between the city and the new Victoria Square; both physical and visual.
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rhino
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by rhino »

Very insightful Joscha. Thankyou for your thoughts, and welcome to Sensational Adelaide.
cheers,
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Waewick »

I tend to agree with Joscha however, I visted central park a few years back (I know its larger etc)

but what made that place enjoyable was the fact that despite being in the middle of probably the biggest city in the world you felt in the middle of know where (well taking into account all the people :lol: )

If you culd create a "refuge" for city people it maybe just as enjoyable as something that takes from its surroundings.

What I find funny about Victoria square is that Hindmarsh square appears to be more user friendly and utilised that Vic Sqaure despite being but into little bits and having as much traffic and congestion.

I gather its becuase of the pubs....
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by crawf »

And the emos from nearby Hungry Jacks...
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Tyler_Durden
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by Tyler_Durden »

One suggestion to help integrate the square is to divert all traffic lanes to the same side, preferably the quieter side (East) so that both north bound and south bound traffic travel to the east of the square. That would help attract more people from the west, although admittedly may isolate it a bit more from the East.

Overall I think the proposal looks quite good with my main concern that it will still act as little more than a traffic island.
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[COM] Re: PRO: Victoria Square Upgrade

Post by spiller »

^^^the east would definately be the side to pick for traffic given that there really isnt a lot directly east of vic sqaure - all of the buzz on the eastern side of the city is in the north east in which case commuters would be travelling through the square via KWS.

I'm a fan of the proposal, I think the shelter and trees will create a good environment whilst maintaining the views of the city (lets face it, the skyline isnt "that" small 8) ). This may not be "the place to be"by the time Adelaide's makeover is complete, but it will certainly be on the list of places to be, and that's important. Adelaide doesnt want to be a one dimentional city with one central location, in fact its precisely the sort of city that it is currently trying to move away from!
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