[PRO] Masonic Lodge | 183m | 37 Levels | Mixed Use

[brizzlar]

I don't want to speak for Rev, but this was your post that started this branch of the conversation:



I would agree in calling out that assumption as mostly wrong when it comes to an established city such as Adelaide. Yes these things tend to come in waves, where some successful developments lead to others as companies and investors see the market is there, however if the economic foundations are not already there over-development can actually be counter-productive to further investment, as they see large rates of hotel vacancies and office floors going unleased.

Hi Nort,

yeah I've got zero issues with being challenged. More than happy for that. My concern is the manner in which it's done. I'm finding on this website that certain people find it appropriate to speak in a derogatory manner towards those they disagree with. Having people swear at you/your ideas is unprofessional and unnecessary. It's disappointing because like most/all people on here, I'm keen to share and debate ideas about the future of Adelaide, but find myself coping abuse when people disagree with my sentiments/points. For the record, I'm referring more to another conversation which I think you also posted in regarding the 195m skyscraper proposal.

I certainly did make an initial statement that took the conversation in a different direction - and perhaps my initial statement lacked balance. I made it sound like an entire economy can change when one builds a few skyscrapers - I know that's false and should have been clearer in stating that. So I'm happy to concede that.

[Nort]

A post so good worth making thrice.

[rev]

Hey Rev,

haha,I'm not here to one up anyone mate. I trust you aren't either. I'm keen for genuine discussion and am open to being persuaded from existing beliefs. Perth's economy is much larger. And I'm proposing that Adelaide (a gamma world city with a small metro market) should aspire to reaching an economy the size of Perth's (a beta global city sized economy which links a mid-sized metro market into the world economy). I'm guessing you're trying to say that things like primary industry (eg car manufacturing, mining etc) matter more than towers in a CBD. In once sense I agree. As you would know, a city needs numerous primary industries to form a diversified economy. I was simply trying to assert that many of the successful cities both in Australia and abroad (esp in North America and Asia) happen to have skyscrapers. I see a pattern there. What do you think?

Not sure what you're trying to say about one upping.

You need people to fill buildings. To fill those hotels and apartments.

More industries more jobs...more people. More people working, more money flowing in the local economy. Also means more likely that big business will setup a presence here, meaning tall buildings in the cbd.

Cant have one without the other.

Economic confidence is important. Look what happened after the state bank collapse.

Rev I'm keen to get your thoughts on what I said above on the specific points I made - ie regarding different world cities and their features.

Yes agreed you need jobs to get people etc. Not disputing that.

The point about one upping was in reference to your initial comment: 'Do you know what's more important then tall shiny buildings? - it came across as both sarcastic and as trying to say 'you're wrong I'm right.' It might well have been misinterpreted but that's how it read.

Well I apologise if it came across that way. It is just text on a screen afterall there's no tone behind it. But it wasnt intended to be a youre wrong im right post. If I thought that I would have just said that directly.
I dont disagree with you, the more tall buildings the better. Of course well designed towers not the cheap student accommodation towers. I want to live to see Adelaide a thriving metropolis, when you fly in and look out the plane window you see a cbd that's a densely built up area of towers from one end to the other.

My personal opinion is that if we get our economy moving and making tremendous strides forward, along with our population which should start growing faster with a high or better performing economy where our growth out paces the eastern states, we will then have substance for more towers and especially of a better design standard.

[brizzlar]

Not sure what you're trying to say about one upping.

You need people to fill buildings. To fill those hotels and apartments.

More industries more jobs...more people. More people working, more money flowing in the local economy. Also means more likely that big business will setup a presence here, meaning tall buildings in the cbd.

Cant have one without the other.

Economic confidence is important. Look what happened after the state bank collapse.

Rev I'm keen to get your thoughts on what I said above on the specific points I made - ie regarding different world cities and their features.

Yes agreed you need jobs to get people etc. Not disputing that.

The point about one upping was in reference to your initial comment: 'Do you know what's more important then tall shiny buildings? - it came across as both sarcastic and as trying to say 'you're wrong I'm right.' It might well have been misinterpreted but that's how it read.

Well I apologise if it came across that way. It is just text on a screen afterall there's no tone behind it. But it wasnt intended to be a youre wrong im right post. If I thought that I would have just said that directly.
I dont disagree with you, the more tall buildings the better. Of course well designed towers not the cheap student accommodation towers. I want to live to see Adelaide a thriving metropolis, when you fly in and look out the plane window you see a cbd that's a densely built up area of towers from one end to the other.

My personal opinion is that if we get our economy moving and making tremendous strides forward, along with our population which should start growing faster with a high or better performing economy where our growth out paces the eastern states, we will then have substance for more towers and especially of a better design standard.

Thanks for the apology Rev.

I tend to agree - a stronger economy is definitely needed. I also agree with your point about the need for 'quality towers' - nothing's worse than those cheap apartment towers that will both age and fall apart within a couple decades...

On another front - how many people do you think Adelaide could realistically accommodate?

[[Shuz]]

Adelaide metropolitan area, if filled in entirely between the Gawler River to the north and down to sellicks in the south, but not McLaren Vale, could easily fit 2.5 million.

[VinyTapestry849]

Freemasons tower has been APPROVED!!
Can someone post the advertiser article in here please. https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... our=append

[Algernon]

The Freemasons approved the project, i.e. their members elected to proceed with a proposal. Nothing lodged. Also the article says 33 storeys, so maybe got a chop.

[Ho Really]

SA/NT Freemasons back North Tce tower, re-elect Grand Master
The Freemasons have backed plans to build a skyscraper behind their spiritual home on North Tce and re-elected their Grand Master in a landslide vote.

Giuseppe Taurino
@gtauriello
October 2, 2021 - 6:11PM The Australian Business Network

Free­masons SA/NT Grand Master David Booker has cruised to a re-election victory on the back of a resounding vote in favour of plans to build a skyscraper behind Freemasons Hall in the city.

In a special ballot, more than 88 per cent of the 648 votes cast by the organisation’s “brethren” supported the tower development, which had been pitched as a way to raise much-needed funds for repairs and ongoing maintenance of the grant heritage-listed building on North Tce.

The result follows opposition to the project from defeated leadership challenger Dr Marcin Stankiewicz, who had described the proposal as “excessively grandiose and ill-defined”, and was lobbying for a more “viable” development at the site.

In a separate vote for the organisation’s leadership, Mr Booker secured more than 71 per cent of the 802 votes cast, and will now serve a further three years as Grand Master.

He said the results represented a strong endorsement for the “exciting vision” for the organisation’s “spiritual home” on North Tce.

“I welcome the opportunity to lead our organisation into this next exciting chapter, and I thank all the members who participated in the process,” he said.

“This project, underpinned by a sound investment strategy, will ensure a bright future for Freemasonry and help to preserve our spiritual home at Freemasons Hall for many generations to come.”

It was revealed in July last year that Freemasons Hall had “extensive concrete cancer”, and $2.2 million was needed for urgent repairs to address public safety concerns.

A further $6.4 million was needed over the coming decade to bring the building up to modern standards and compliance requirements.

The proposed $120m tower would include a mix of hotel, student accommodation, office and hospitality spaces across 33 storeys, and would be topped with a restaurant and public viewing platform.

A memorandum of understanding has been entered into with the History Trust of South Australia to explore the opportunity to transform part of the existing 1927 building into a museum showcasing artefacts and other historic South Australian items.

Freemasons Property Trust chairman Henry Davis said several potential development partners had already shown interest in the project.

“We have had significant interest from five local and interstate companies keen on being joint venture development partners, and our focus will now be on completing market research, evaluating tenders and working with the government on development approvals,” he said.

“While the future of the Freemasons Hall has been debated over many years, we can now confidently move forward knowing there is strong membership support to create a destination the entire community can enjoy.”

Mr Stankiewicz did not return calls.

The Advertiser

[VinyTapestry849]

The Freemasons approved the project, i.e. their members elected to proceed with a proposal. Nothing lodged. Also the article says 33 storeys, so maybe got a chop.

I hope not, I'm really hoping for it to stay at 160m.
If so I'll be writing a Firery letter of disappointment to freemasons and to the planning body.

[rev]

The Freemasons approved the project, i.e. their members elected to proceed with a proposal. Nothing lodged. Also the article says 33 storeys, so maybe got a chop.

I hope not, I'm really hoping for it to stay at 160m.
If so I'll be writing a Firery letter of disappointment to freemasons and to the planning body.

Why so angry?

[Patrick_27]

The Freemasons approved the project, i.e. their members elected to proceed with a proposal. Nothing lodged. Also the article says 33 storeys, so maybe got a chop.

I hope not, I'm really hoping for it to stay at 160m.
If so I'll be writing a Firery letter of disappointment to freemasons and to the planning body.

Why so angry?

VinyTapestry849 is one of those 'we need to build anything and everything that is tall because I get aroused by it' crew.

[Ben]

The Freemasons approved the project, i.e. their members elected to proceed with a proposal. Nothing lodged. Also the article says 33 storeys, so maybe got a chop.

I hope not, I'm really hoping for it to stay at 160m.
If so I'll be writing a Firery letter of disappointment to freemasons and to the planning body.

The levels are the same as the original proposal of 33.

[Algernon]

Ah, so it doesn't account for what would be considered the podium floors at the base of the tower. So, maybe no chop. Only speculation anyway until (if) a DA materialises.

[Algernon]

double post (shitty interface)

[VinyTapestry849]

We need to get rid of these height restrictions, it's stupid and entirely unethical. It discourages these types of developments which drive economic growth in the metro area.
According to FlightRadar24, all aircraft entering the north-east facing runway fly over a an entire Kilometre + away from the boundaries of the CBD, not including in the extra distance from the aircraft's height.
I'm thinking of starting a petition, they need to be removed.