[PRO] Masonic Lodge | 183m | 37 Levels | Mixed Use

[Ozbear73]

Flying out of Dubai is extraordinary and is exactly how it’s described above…I wish I could post video of it, which I took flying out of there in the middle of the night 5 years ago almost to the day…

[AG]

Theoretically, even if the building went up to the PANSOPS limit, the contractor and developer would still need to get approval to poke a tower crane up into the space above that limit. Sky Tower and The One in Brisbane both went through this process, and they ended up using telescopic tower cranes to construct the top floors once the buildings approached the limit.

[[Shuz]]

I figured that's why hammerheads were used on Realm, Adelaidean, Sofitel and 119NT.

[Algernon]

But those renders are so non-description though

Because they're not a DA, they're presenting a business case for approval to a private board. If theyget the go ahead, this thing will likely look nothing like the renders nor have the same mix of uses if it finally gets to market.

With regard to speculation ofwhat it means that they're proposing this height, it probably means something along these lines: they asked someone from Sydney or Melbourne what the secret is, said someone looked things over and said "wait, you're still basically limited to OLS?", then they probably laughed and collapsed on the floor for a bit, then replied that it's something that's negotiable - it just needs a motivated party to have that conversation with the authorities (something which never happened because nobody ever tried in Adelaide, unlike every other major mainland capital).

If anyone has any doubts of whether it's technically possible to build somethig an approaching supertall in Adelaide, just consider this.When you take off from DXB, some paths after lift off actualy take you around the Burj Khalifa. Like, you look out the window and you are flying around it, not over it. It's the exact same EK flight that is about to land at ADL 14 hours later. The plane/pilot/airline hasn't changed, the regulations and radar equipment at the airport has.

That's interesting. So are you saying that the big height limit could actually be lifted with more advanced Airport tech?

Adelaide is more or less bound by OLS. With some effort, it can be brought into line with other mainland capitals which are more or less bound by pans ops. That would have Adelaide sorted for height limits for the next millenium. But, if you want to know if it's theoretically possible to punch higher? Well, i'll leave it to your imagintion with this - the distance (as the crow flies) from the closest DXB runway to the Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world at 830m) is roughly equivalent of the distance between ADL's main runway and portrush road.

[Patrick_27]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

[Patrick_27]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

[Nort]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

Is your argument here then that if the Masonic Lodge decides to build this they will lose money?

[SBD]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

Is your argument here then that if the Masonic Lodge decides to build this they will lose money?

Just because I don't want to live in an inner-city apartment doesn't mean that nobody wants to. I like the view from the side of a hill 100m above the Adelaide plains, so I can imagine liking it just as much from the top of a building in the middle of it. If someone wants to live in an apartment, it might as well have a nice view.

That logic only works for the top parts of tall buildings, which is why "mixed use" works for the lower parts.

[Ho Really]

I figured that's why hammerheads were used on Realm, Adelaidean, Sofitel and 119NT.

You forget that when the State Bank building was built they used Favcos.



Cheers

[Nort]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

Is your argument here then that if the Masonic Lodge decides to build this they will lose money?

Just because I don't want to live in an inner-city apartment doesn't mean that nobody wants to. I like the view from the side of a hill 100m above the Adelaide plains, so I can imagine liking it just as much from the top of a building in the middle of it. If someone wants to live in an apartment, it might as well have a nice view.

That logic only works for the top parts of tall buildings, which is why "mixed use" works for the lower parts.

Exactly. There's also the bonus that for the top dozen or so floors their North East views are safe for a long time to come.

[[Shuz]]

State Bank was built pre CASA / current modern day airspace regulations.

[brizzlar]

Just putting it out there, seeing as everyone is wetting their pants over an increase in height for our skyline that there has to be a demand for whatever the purpose of the building; and further to that at the present moment, it's probably quicker and therefore cheaper to build a stumpy building over the mass of under-utilised CBD blocks than it is to go through what seems like an endless process of negotiation just to have a building any taller that what Adelaide has already seen. Whilst further commercial office space is not necessary, student accommodation is in abundance and at the present moment virtually useless, hotels are a also in abundance and the tourism industry is in a form of moderate hibernation, and apartment living is still not a preferred (or even necessary) choice in Adelaide. What reason do we have other than tokenism to build something 140m+? Really, it just ends up being a smokescreen for the fact that our economy has flatlined.

Yeah I don't think it's about necessity as much as creating potential. Whether people like it or not, skyscrapers are often considered the mark of a world city. If Adelaide wants to regain the relative importance it once enjoyed in the 70s and 80s, this is one thing it needs to embrace. Additionally, there is some truth to the old adage 'build it and they will come' - if companies see that Adelaide is turning a new leaf and finally catching up to the other big 5, they're more likely to invest. The same goes for individuals who want to be in a city that's moving forward. I acknowledge that not everyone has such a mindset, but many do.

[brizzlar]

Because they're not a DA, they're presenting a business case for approval to a private board. If theyget the go ahead, this thing will likely look nothing like the renders nor have the same mix of uses if it finally gets to market.

With regard to speculation ofwhat it means that they're proposing this height, it probably means something along these lines: they asked someone from Sydney or Melbourne what the secret is, said someone looked things over and said "wait, you're still basically limited to OLS?", then they probably laughed and collapsed on the floor for a bit, then replied that it's something that's negotiable - it just needs a motivated party to have that conversation with the authorities (something which never happened because nobody ever tried in Adelaide, unlike every other major mainland capital).

If anyone has any doubts of whether it's technically possible to build somethig an approaching supertall in Adelaide, just consider this.When you take off from DXB, some paths after lift off actualy take you around the Burj Khalifa. Like, you look out the window and you are flying around it, not over it. It's the exact same EK flight that is about to land at ADL 14 hours later. The plane/pilot/airline hasn't changed, the regulations and radar equipment at the airport has.

That's interesting. So are you saying that the big height limit could actually be lifted with more advanced Airport tech?

Adelaide is more or less bound by OLS. With some effort, it can be brought into line with other mainland capitals which are more or less bound by pans ops. That would have Adelaide sorted for height limits for the next millenium. But, if you want to know if it's theoretically possible to punch higher? Well, i'll leave it to your imagintion with this - the distance (as the crow flies) from the closest DXB runway to the Burj Khalifa (the tallest building in the world at 830m) is roughly equivalent of the distance between ADL's main runway and portrush road.

I take your point. You make it sound relatively easy to do - if that's the case, why hasn't it been done??

[brizzlar]

State Bank was built pre CASA / current modern day airspace regulations.

So when did the height limits come into play then?

[Jaymz]

State Bank was built pre CASA / current modern day airspace regulations.

That's interesting, so with modern planes and technology we haven't been able to overcome this problem

And if so, why not?