News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[claybro]

Is there any info on what electric trains they plan to buy for the Gawler line?

It will go out for tender hopefully, so hopefully this time they will be of better quality compared to last time when there was (allegedly) no open tender.

Has there been issues with the last lot for Seaford?

[Norman]

Is there any info on what electric trains they plan to buy for the Gawler line?

It will go out for tender hopefully, so hopefully this time they will be of better quality compared to last time when there was (allegedly) no open tender.

Has there been issues with the last lot for Seaford?

Yes, first there were floors that had issues (some of them have been replaced with black floors), the suspension is poor with excessive horizontal jaw on the track and the A/C units are excessively loud on some of the trains.

[rubberman]

Is there any info on what electric trains they plan to buy for the Gawler line?

It will go out for tender hopefully, so hopefully this time they will be of better quality compared to last time when there was (allegedly) no open tender.

Well, in theory. However, there's a lot to be said for standardisation. Then, there's the disaster they had in Queensland with their new trains. It might be less of a risk, and have standardisation advantages to just get more of what we have, than go out to tender and risk getting something worse.

Either that, or go round the world, evaluate a few likely contenders from reputable suppliers by actually travelling on vehicles in service, then go out to limited tenders with the proven models as the only options. I have very little confidence in the ability to design/specify/assess locally.

More of the same would seem to be the safest.

[Goodsy]

It's a shame we can't just buy the same trains that Sydney uses.. maybe we could put in an order for a shorter version of Melbourne's new trains

[PD2/20]

It's a shame we can't just buy the same trains that Sydney uses.. maybe we could put in an order for a shorter version of Melbourne's new trains

Adelaide 25kV AC overhead 1600mm gauge
Sydney 1.5 DC overhead 1435mm gauge
Melbourne 1.5 DC overhead 1600mm gauge

[Jaymz]

Pretty sure there's still some new trains left over in stores from the southern electrification, so we can expect the same for the northern line. Why would we expect anything different?

[Jaymz]

The last shambles of a Govt has had them in waiting for years since the southern line, but was so difficult to deal with on a Federal level that they couldn't finish playing with their political train set.

[rubberman]

Pretty sure there's still some new trains left over in stores from the southern electrification, so we can expect the same for the northern line. Why would we expect anything different?

Yeah, I guess the question is what exactly is available that would be so much better that we would give up advantages of standardisation, and knowing what we are getting? Obviously, if there's something out there that does the same job better for a lot cheaper, or a different role for a different type of railcar, that's different. (For example, if it were feasible to run high speed express from Salisbury/Noarlunga to city, different vehicles would be needed). However, I haven't seen anyone arguing for this. So, why change?

[Jaymz]

Pretty sure there's still some new trains left over in stores from the southern electrification, so we can expect the same for the northern line. Why would we expect anything different?

Yeah, I guess the question is what exactly is available that would be so much better that we would give up advantages of standardisation, and knowing what we are getting? Obviously, if there's something out there that does the same job better for a lot cheaper, or a different role for a different type of railcar, that's different. (For example, if it were feasible to run high speed express from Salisbury/Noarlunga to city, different vehicles would be needed). However, I haven't seen anyone arguing for this. So, why change?

I don't care about being cheaper, this is essential spending. Even more so than a $2.4 billion hospital. Embarrassing that we only have half our train services modernised.

[PD2/20]

Pretty sure there's still some new trains left over in stores from the southern electrification, so we can expect the same for the northern line. Why would we expect anything different?

All 22 sets delivered are in regular service although only 15 are needed to cover the peak hour service. There would be sufficient spare to cover a Adelaide - Salisbury service in Phase 1 of the Gawler electrification. 15 additional sets would be acquired in Phase 2 of Gawler elctrification. Currently about 12 diesel sets cover the Gawler peak service.

[rubberman]

Pretty sure there's still some new trains left over in stores from the southern electrification, so we can expect the same for the northern line. Why would we expect anything different?

Yeah, I guess the question is what exactly is available that would be so much better that we would give up advantages of standardisation, and knowing what we are getting? Obviously, if there's something out there that does the same job better for a lot cheaper, or a different role for a different type of railcar, that's different. (For example, if it were feasible to run high speed express from Salisbury/Noarlunga to city, different vehicles would be needed). However, I haven't seen anyone arguing for this. So, why change?

I don't care about being cheaper, this is essential spending. Even more so than a $2.4 billion hospital. Embarrassing that we only have half our train services modernised.

You might not care, but plenty of voting taxpayers do care about cost, and the numbers using the trains aren't that high.

Also, there's not necessarily a lot of agreement on spending money on trains either. Personally, I'd convert the Outer Harbor line to light rail in a heart beat, and would rather expand the tram system as being better uses for the money. I don't mean that to troll, but to point out that there are a lot of competing demands for scarce funding, and a lot of different priorities. The rail system has had huge amounts of money spent in the past ten years. That money could have built a new tram system, carrying a lot more passengers, yet the demands to spend even more billions for relatively few passengers keep on coming.

[Norman]

Before electrification, Adelaide had 70 of the 3000-series railcars and 29 of the 2000-class railcars, a total of 99. When electrification of the Noarlunga Line was announced, a total of 50 or so rail cars were purchased, intended to replace the 2000-class and provide 21 extra rail cars. The extension of the Noarlunga Line to Seaford meant that an additional 16 rail cars were needed to operate the service, creating the total 66 4000-class electric railcars we have now. This means that the original 50 that were ordered were never intended to only be used on the Seaford Line, but to replace the 2000-class on all lines and provide extra capacity. Due to the government delaying the other electrification projects time and time again meant that there was a surplus of electric railcars that could not be used on the entire network.

It was always the intention to use the extra trains on the other lines once they were electrified. In fact, the electrification from Adelaide to Salisbury was a lot cheaper than the balance of the line as it did not require any new railcars to be purchased. However, as the electrification project has now been extended to Gawler, more new electric railcars will be required to keep the service as efficient as possible by not mixing fast, electric trains with slow diesel trains.

[victorious80]

Re the need to upgrade rail network...about the same number of people use Adelaide's current rail network per day as those driving on South Rd, but I am fairly sure more has been spent on upgrading South Rd over past decade (and prob will be into the future). Not that I want to start a debate on rail vs road, as they both have their use and South Rd certainly needs an upgrade, but we need to be careful in saying that patronage on trains is low and therefore rail doesn't warrant more funding. The fact is that the current rail network is less than great when compared to other networks in Aus and the world, yet there are over 14m rail trips annually. So people are using it. Yes the usage is low compared to other modes of transport, but the only way to increase usage is to improve the network. I don't commute on the trains myself (cycling and buses are more convenient where I live) but I would be happy for my tax dollars to go into upgrading a service that directly benefits many, and also has the advantage of decreasing road traffic and therefore helping those who use the road.

[ml69]

Re the need to upgrade rail network...about the same number of people use Adelaide's current rail network per day as those driving on South Rd, but I am fairly sure more has been spent on upgrading South Rd over past decade (and prob will be into the future). Not that I want to start a debate on rail vs road, as they both have their use and South Rd certainly needs an upgrade, but we need to be careful in saying that patronage on trains is low and therefore rail doesn't warrant more funding. The fact is that the current rail network is less than great when compared to other networks in Aus and the world, yet there are over 14m rail trips annually. So people are using it. Yes the usage is low compared to other modes of transport, but the only way to increase usage is to improve the network. I don't commute on the trains myself (cycling and buses are more convenient where I live) but I would be happy for my tax dollars to go into upgrading a service that directly benefits many, and also has the advantage of decreasing road traffic and therefore helping those who use the road.

You only need to look at Auckland rail patronage growth as an example of what can happen once there is:
(a) conveniently-located CBD station
(b) electrification
(c) suburban interchange improvements

Now they are building a CBD rail tunnel and new CBD stations which will send patronage skyrocketing even further. https://www.cityraillink.co.nz

And they have seen massive patronage growth using their existing 3 line system (no new lines, and smaller overall system than Adelaide).

There are many lessons for us to learn in Adelaide.

[rhino]

Yes, there are, and Adelaide and Aukland are very similar-sized cities, population-wise.