News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

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1NEEDS2POST
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by 1NEEDS2POST »

Saltwater wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm
Maybe in the longer term a bus-only tunnel underneath Currie and Greenfell streets would work. I think there is a similar concept in Seattle. Here it could link up with the Obahn tunnel that emerges near East Terrace, and carry people across the CBD with stops near Rundle Street, KWS for tram connections, near Leigh St for connections to the train, and a few other stops. In the west buses could then head to the airport, Henley Beach Road and Grange Roads with frequent services. This would free up space at ground level for cars, bikes and / or pedestrians, and hopefully allow for a few trees to be planted as well.
There are similar bus tunnels in Brisbane. They have two terminal bus stations that are underground in the CBD. Brisbane has a big system of busways that feed into these bus stations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Street_bus_station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Geor ... ay_station

The O-Bahn tunnel was very cheap by tunnel standards at $160 million. The length of Grenfell/Currie is double that, but there are more services to relocate and construction would be more disruptive. Still, a Grenfell/Currie bus tunnel would make financial sense. This could be combined with a narrowing of the street (since there would be less bus traffic), wider footpaths and more landscaping.
rubberman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
SRW wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:31 am
It need have no more impact to Gawler Place than to any of the other cross streets (Pultney, Frome etc), but it's worth noting Gawler Place is already a cul de sac -- it (rightly) stops dead at the mall.

Also, I doubt there's need to worry about trams. If there's ever a tram from Henley, it would more probably join a city loop at Morphett St rather than traverse the length of Currie/Grenfell.
Again, what possible difference could it make? You simply run trams and buses in the same lane like is done elsewhere in the world...and should have been done on Port Road and North Terrace, taking buses out of the other lanes: a win for motorists, and for bus travellers who would get a faster ride.
There is a problem with running buses and trams near CBD bus stops that makes them incompatible. When a tram comes to a tram stop, it just stops in its own track. Take a look at the bus stops in Grenfell/Currie. Buses don't just stop in their lane on the road, they pull over to the kerb. So there are two lanes for the bus stop: one for buses to stop in, the other for buses to move and overtake other buses.

On low traffic routes, buses can stop in the bus lane like a tram, but in the CBD where there are many bus routes converging, it's too hard. Buses need the ability to overtake. It also lets the multiple bus routes have their own stops in the same street, which is what we see in Currie/Grenfell.
Last edited by 1NEEDS2POST on Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
rubberman
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by rubberman »

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:29 pm
Saltwater wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:12 pm
Maybe in the longer term a bus-only tunnel underneath Currie and Greenfell streets would work. I think there is a similar concept in Seattle. Here it could link up with the Obahn tunnel that emerges near East Terrace, and carry people across the CBD with stops near Rundle Street, KWS for tram connections, near Leigh St for connections to the train, and a few other stops. In the west buses could then head to the airport, Henley Beach Road and Grange Roads with frequent services. This would free up space at ground level for cars, bikes and / or pedestrians, and hopefully allow for a few trees to be planted as well.
There is are similar bus tunnels in Brisbane. They have two terminal bus stations that are underground in the CBD. Brisbane has a big system of busways that feed into these bus stations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Street_bus_station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Geor ... ay_station

The O-Bahn tunnel was very cheap by tunnel standards at $160 million. The length of Grenfell/Currie is double that, but there are more services to relocate and construction would be more disruptive. Still, a Grenfell/Currie bus tunnel would make financial sense. This could be combined with a narrowing of the street (since there would be less bus traffic), wider footpaths and more landscaping.
rubberman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
SRW wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:31 am
It need have no more impact to Gawler Place than to any of the other cross streets (Pultney, Frome etc), but it's worth noting Gawler Place is already a cul de sac -- it (rightly) stops dead at the mall.

Also, I doubt there's need to worry about trams. If there's ever a tram from Henley, it would more probably join a city loop at Morphett St rather than traverse the length of Currie/Grenfell.
Again, what possible difference could it make? You simply run trams and buses in the same lane like is done elsewhere in the world...and should have been done on Port Road and North Terrace, taking buses out of the other lanes: a win for motorists, and for bus travellers who would get a faster ride.
There is a problem with running buses and trams near CBD bus stops that makes them incompatible. When a tram comes to a tram stop, it just stops in its own track. Take a look at the bus stops in Grenfell/Currie. Buses don't just stop in their lane on the road, they pull over to the kerb. So there are two lanes for the bus stop: one for buses to stop in, the other for buses to move and overtake other buses.

On low traffic routes, buses can stop in the bus lane like a tram, but in the CBD where there are many bus routes converging, it's too hard. Buses need the ability to overtake. It also lets the multiple bus routes have their own stops in the same street, which is what we see in Currie/Grenfell.
Why can't the buses use the tram track to overtake? It's just another lane.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by Spotto »

Eurostar wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:54 pm
Norman wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:20 am
Well, well overdue. The interchange should be moved to the new Flinders Station anyway.
By the looks of the animation there will be a bus stop under the viaduct on Main South Road
If you drive through Darlington you can see the northbound and southbound Stop 27 Main South Road being finished off. They’re located between Sturt Rd and Flinders Drive and are intended to be an interface between MSR buses and Flinders station.
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1NEEDS2POST
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by 1NEEDS2POST »

rubberman wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:48 pm
Why can't the buses use the tram track to overtake? It's just another lane.
Trams stop in the tram lane, which prevents buses from overtaking. A potential solution might be to have an overtaking lane for trams and buses, but move the tram stop to a side lane too. Trams would get out of the overtaking lane just for the stop, then merge back into the overtaking lane after the stop.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by rubberman »

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:51 am
rubberman wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:48 pm
Why can't the buses use the tram track to overtake? It's just another lane.
Trams stop in the tram lane, which prevents buses from overtaking. A potential solution might be to have an overtaking lane for trams and buses, but move the tram stop to a side lane too. Trams would get out of the overtaking lane just for the stop, then merge back into the overtaking lane after the stop.


I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand.

Obviously at peak hours all lanes are somewhat congested. So, a second lane can obviously have other vehicles in it, be those trams or buses. Just as a bus driver will not pull out if another bus is passing, or if another bus is stopped in the other lane, there's no difference because the other vehicle is a tram. If there's no tram or bus in the other lane, a bus driver can move into the lane. If there's a bus there, or a tram, they cannot pull out.
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PeFe
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

Post by PeFe »

Grenfell/Currie should be a transit mall.

3 lanes in each direction......inside lane can be light rail, footpath lane can be bus stops, middle lane will be for buses, taxis and delivery vehicles only.

Building a tunnel under Grenfell/Currie is extremely expensive and unnecessary.......regular car traffic can use other streets.
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