News & Discussion: Trams

[rubberman]

Guys, the main problem is simply timing. The last two expansions came at a time where not much else was happening in Australia in the world of light rail, so we pretty much got the cream of the crop working on the projects. In the past 12 months Australia is undertaking major projects in Sydney, Canberra, Gold Coast and Newcastle. So our piddly little extension gets what’s left. That’s pretty much the gist of it there just doesn’t seem to be enough know-how to go around at the moment, so we see errors and overruns appear more frequently than they should. Let’s just hope we aren’t the ones that have to pay top price for bottom of the barrel work.

I agree with the thrust of your argument, but I'd expand it a little without changing the principle. There's only so much tram expertise in the world, a lot going on, Melbourne lost a lot of expertise in the Kennett years and is still recovering. What is therefore happening is that many consultants just used heavy rail expertise, made it "lighter" and called themselves light rail experts. They've then done some very expensive work based on heavy rail principles, and now they are "experienced". Their expensive heavy rail based techniques are becoming embedded in Australian standard practice, making tram extensions hard to justify, other than as "vanity" projects, or as limited inner city lines where there's a vast number of commuters.

If what is happening in Sydney represents the cream of the crop, I rest my case for getting in overseas expertise. That is nothing short of a scandal, and has probably killed the chance of any further trams in Sydney ever. I cannot see a future NSW Government ever extending the system after this.

They need to come to Prague and Brno and see the extent of tram development that goes on in the summer months. In Brno they just completed something that utterly shits on the north terrace extension - digging up and relaying a line from Ceska to Namesti Svobody. They get this stuff done in a matter of weeks, not like these jokers. It's embarrassing.

Souhlasím. Byl jsem v Praze v červenci.

[SBD]

[...]

There's a couple of questionss though. Most of the problems of this stage came after February/March. So was it K+M and mates or Marshall and Lucas?

[...]

Unequivocally previous government. Why? Because they wanted it finished before the election to score the points. Besides all the plans were already laid out and they selected the contractor. Marshall, etc., can only be blamed, if you want to blame them of course, for overseeing the repairs. The damage was there already unfortunately.

Cheers

Looking at the project from the outside, but with a fair bit of personal project management experience, this looks very much like they lost their project manager around March. If you look at progress in the first 6 months, vs the last 6 months it's chalk and cheese.

First six months:

Services located and relocated.
Track laid.
Complex crossing installed.
Overhead installed.
Stop construction started.

Second six months:

Four stops completed.
Signals completed.

Where the government IS liable is to ensure that DPTI has engaged a competent project manager.

Mind you, I admit this is a guess. But look at the lists of what was accomplished in those two time frames. I hope you can agree at least that it looks suspicious.

So we need to find out who left the department or York about 3 weeks before the election? Given that the number of people who lost their jobs when the administrators closed York's doors was significantly less than the number of people it claimed to employ a few months earlier, I suspect that quite a few people went in that period. I'm looking from way outside with no real information though.

[Nathan]

In today's Sunday Mail a report on tenders for 400 new buses to replace ageing buses Transport Minister Stefan Knoll stated that plans for trams to North Adelaide had been scrapped.

Wait up, wasn't a major policy the Liberals took to the election the establishment of an 'Infrastructure SA' to assess infrastructure projects in order to "take a strategic, not political, approach to building our infrastructure". Didn't they specifically say the North Adelaide tram extension was to go through that process? And yet here we are with them canning it without any of that?

[EBG]

Good news!! the " test trams" have been up graded to "driver training trams"!! THE SAME TRAMS ARE STILL RUNNING EMPTY.

[Waewick]

In today's Sunday Mail a report on tenders for 400 new buses to replace ageing buses Transport Minister Stefan Knoll stated that plans for trams to North Adelaide had been scrapped.

Wait up, wasn't a major policy the Liberals took to the election the establishment of an 'Infrastructure SA' to assess infrastructure projects in order to "take a strategic, not political, approach to building our infrastructure". Didn't they specifically say the North Adelaide tram extension was to go through that process? And yet here we are with them canning it without any of that?

As i understand it hasn't passed the senate with Labor and SA best ultimately planning to block it.

[ChillyPhilly]

Infrastructure SA would have ended up like Infrastructure Australia anyway - its guidelines would have been politically bound regardless. IA's issue was its constantly changing goalposts for business cases and the like.

[crawf]

In today's Sunday Mail a report on tenders for 400 new buses to replace ageing buses Transport Minister Stefan Knoll stated that plans for trams to North Adelaide had been scrapped.

Wait up, wasn't a major policy the Liberals took to the election the establishment of an 'Infrastructure SA' to assess infrastructure projects in order to "take a strategic, not political, approach to building our infrastructure". Didn't they specifically say the North Adelaide tram extension was to go through that process? And yet here we are with them canning it without any of that?

As i understand it hasn't passed the senate with Labor and SA best ultimately planning to block it.

SA Best are a hindrance to this state.

[Llessur2002]

The operators of Adelaide Airport say they are willing to fund and maintain a tram station outside the passenger terminal

THE operators of Adelaide Airport have offered to fund a tram station for passengers and staff if the State Government gives the green light to a light rail link to the airport.

The airport is reserving land at the airport site to ensure a tram service could drop passengers off at the terminal if a link from the city goes ahead.

The former state Labor government sought federal support for a light rail link to the airport and construction giant, the Downer group, last year proposed privately funding a $500 million tramline.

An airport tram wasn’t among the infrastructure priorities the Liberals took to the March state election but the new Government hasn’t ruled the idea out completely.

Adelaide Airport Limited has promised to keep land available for the project. “Following the state election in March 2018, AAL will continue to discuss the infrastructure principles with the new South Australian Government,’’ the company said in a submission to a Productivity Commission inquiry.

“In its Master Plan, AAL has provided land for a light rail corridor that would interconnect with the terminal and business precinct. AAL would construct and maintain a tram station to ensure that the passenger journey is seamless and easy.’’

The State Government has established an independent body, Infrastructure South Australia, to help it prioritise major projects.

From: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 4307f563d6

[claybro]

Lets hope AAL besides just setting aside land for the tram stop, also offers some funding for the section of track through its land, and also publicly keeps the pressure on the government to facilitate the link, including private funding if required. And the West Torrens Council???crickets. They also need to be more vocal. They stand to benefit most as the properties adjacent to the link will increase in value above what they would with no link. If they don't keep up the pressure, it will just go on the shelf, as the public are only barely warm to the idea, probably think its a waste of money, and don't understand the wider benefits the link will provide to the inner west.

[timtam20292]

Latest update:

Dear Stakeholder

The Department of Planning, Transport and Infrastructure (DPTI) would like to notify you of upcoming profiling and asphalting works at the intersection of King William Road and North Terrace as part of finishing works for the City Tram Extension.

Night works will occur from 1am, Monday, 17 September until 4:30am, Thursday, 27 September each night, weather permitting.

Speed and lane restrictions will be in place in the vicinity of the works, with one lane maintained in each direction at all times. Signage and traffic management will be in place to advise motorists of changed conditions. Tram services will not be affected during these works.

Access to businesses and properties will be maintained.

Thank you for your continued patience and ongoing interest in the City Tram Extension Project whilst testing continues.

For more information on the City Tram Extension Project please visit www.citytramextension.sa.gov.au, call the enquiry line on 1300 030 919 or email [email protected].

Regards

Stakeholder and Community Engagement Team

[rubberman]

Lets hope AAL besides just setting aside land for the tram stop, also offers some funding for the section of track through its land, and also publicly keeps the pressure on the government to facilitate the link, including private funding if required. And the West Torrens Council???crickets. They also need to be more vocal. They stand to benefit most as the properties adjacent to the link will increase in value above what they would with no link. If they don't keep up the pressure, it will just go on the shelf, as the public are only barely warm to the idea, probably think its a waste of money, and don't understand the wider benefits the link will provide to the inner west.

I sort of see some of the benefits. However, costs are high, and the model proposed by the private consortium pushed those costs and commercial risks straight back to the taxpayer. That's from what one can glean from the Advertiser. Obviously, if they had it wrong, and the consortium was risking all its own money, that's another matter.

However, as it stands with high proposed costs and all the risk on the taxpayer, I'm surprised the public are even "barely warm".

What we need to see before this can possibly be taken seriously is a full and transparent proposal showing how the State will benefit, over and above the costs. Anything less looks like a corrupt gift to the private sector, and once tram extensions get the stench of corruption AND being way too expensive, that will be the finish.

I would like to see more tram routes, but if and only if they make economic sense. I think the public is absolutely right to be skeptical of all half baked over expensive projects, whatever they are.

[claybro]

I sort of see some of the benefits. However, costs are high, and the model proposed by the private consortium pushed those costs and commercial risks straight back to the taxpayer. That's from what one can glean from the Advertiser. Obviously, if they had it wrong, and the consortium was risking all its own money, that's another matter.

However, as it stands with high proposed costs and all the risk on the taxpayer, I'm surprised the public are even "barely warm".

What we need to see before this can possibly be taken seriously is a full and transparent proposal showing how the State will benefit, over and above the costs. Anything less looks like a corrupt gift to the private sector, and once tram extensions get the stench of corruption AND being way too expensive, that will be the finish.

I would like to see more tram routes, but if and only if they make economic sense. I think the public is absolutely right to be skeptical of all half baked over expensive projects, whatever they are.

I guess though this is like asking the public if they thought building "the most expensive hospital in the world" was worth the cost to the state, and yet the hospital has proven to be a nucleus of the new research precinct on North Terrace, which is very definitely a boon to the state. Not every service the government provides can be constructed using a cost benefit analysis, but I agree, it does need to stack up at least part way. The challenge with these things in SA...apart from getting the project right and for the right cost, is always going to be getting everyone on board, ie the local council, property developers, local retailers, employer and business groups. AAL announcing they are setting aside a block of land for a station, really is a bit of lip service, given the increased value it will provide to the airport land, business park and their brand.

[how good is he]

Was there a preferred route that came out of all the studies? I think Henley Beach Rd had a lot of opposition from the traders and would only leave one lane for cars. I think Sir Don was probably the likely outcome but Richmond Rd had potentially more upside to develop/add value to cheaper land and was the widest until you get to South Rd. The future plans for a South Rd freeway will also impact all the routes. Also was train [possibly underground] ever considered as there is limited need for any stops. Cost though would be a problem.

[Norman]

Henley Beach Road was the preferred option, followed by Sir Donald Bradman Drive. Richmond Road was considered but rejected.

[robboaustralia]

From a selfish point of view I hope the airport line goes ahead. I bought my place close to Airport road/Henley beach road thinking this might one day happen. Could think nothing better than the sound of trams passing by. Not sure it will be viable but the idea of it sounds good. Wonder if the taxi council will be one of those groups opposed?

In regards to Henley Beach Road that road is an accident waiting to happen with all the parked cars and the bus stop/start cycle pretty much making the inside lane useless now. Would definately be only one lane with no parking if it went ahead unless they create spots by intruding into footpath which I am not sure is even possible.