[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5836 Post by urban » Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:27 pm

If land is being acquired on the eastern side of South Rd in Ashford this will be for traffic travelling south as it approaches Anzac Hwy. The flyover was for traffic travelling north.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5837 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:30 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:26 pm
They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road. :lol:
It's ok for people to say no to suburbs being effectively destroyed.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5838 Post by SBD » Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:46 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:26 pm
They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road. :lol:
Nice troll !

The trouble is that a trench created by a big bulldozer just can't work anyway, besides it being an ugly scar on the landscape. Who knows how many telephone, internet, water, sewerage and electricity pipes and cables cross the road. Some parts of this predate it being a designated main road so there would have been little effort to collect them near main roads so they can easily be carried on the crossing bridges.

Brown Hill Creek, Keswick Creek and Torrens River are not completely controlled waterways. Every now and then, they get extreme flows that could not reasonably be collected in a pipe carried over a trench. I'm not sure how rain in the T2T trench is removed, but having the runoff from the entire CBD and foothills filling it would overwhelm whatever kind of drainage or pumps are provided.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5839 Post by Nort » Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:10 pm

Design changes will be revealed next week.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5840 Post by rev » Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:54 am

SBD wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:46 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:26 pm
They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road. :lol:
Nice troll !

The trouble is that a trench created by a big bulldozer just can't work anyway, besides it being an ugly scar on the landscape. Who knows how many telephone, internet, water, sewerage and electricity pipes and cables cross the road. Some parts of this predate it being a designated main road so there would have been little effort to collect them near main roads so they can easily be carried on the crossing bridges.

Brown Hill Creek, Keswick Creek and Torrens River are not completely controlled waterways. Every now and then, they get extreme flows that could not reasonably be collected in a pipe carried over a trench. I'm not sure how rain in the T2T trench is removed, but having the runoff from the entire CBD and foothills filling it would overwhelm whatever kind of drainage or pumps are provided.
Other countries build islands in the middle of ocean's, move entire mountains, create amazing engineering feats, but we can't overcome a few rivers for one of the most important pieces of infrastructure in our state?

I guess the "ugly scar on the landscape" is ok further north, but not where you live?

And you say I'm trolling lol.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5841 Post by SBD » Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:28 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:54 am
SBD wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:46 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:26 pm
They need to just get on with this already.
They'll be spending over $10 billion if the government is to be believed hence the delays. That's almost $1 billion per kilometre.
For that money they could buy up all the properties along that stretch and dig a trench the whole way, and still have money to help businesses relocate.

Tunnels or a single long tunnel would be cool, but let's be realistic.

Forget the heritage excuses. What heritage? Who gives a shit about some old houses. They wont be standing in 200 years let alone 500 years, it's not like in centuries to come our descendants will be looking at them as ancient monuments with tourists visiting them like we do with the Pyramids and so on, they wont give a shit about some old houses, majority of people today don't give a shit, so why hinder progress and drive up the cost of getting shit done?

Just bulldoze everything along the remainder of the corridor that can't be worked around at a reasonable cost, dig out a trench and get it done.
Any other city would have been all over this by now. Only SA with it's backwater minded politicians still pissfarts around with how to upgrade a road. :lol:
Nice troll !

The trouble is that a trench created by a big bulldozer just can't work anyway, besides it being an ugly scar on the landscape. Who knows how many telephone, internet, water, sewerage and electricity pipes and cables cross the road. Some parts of this predate it being a designated main road so there would have been little effort to collect them near main roads so they can easily be carried on the crossing bridges.

Brown Hill Creek, Keswick Creek and Torrens River are not completely controlled waterways. Every now and then, they get extreme flows that could not reasonably be collected in a pipe carried over a trench. I'm not sure how rain in the T2T trench is removed, but having the runoff from the entire CBD and foothills filling it would overwhelm whatever kind of drainage or pumps are provided.
Other countries build islands in the middle of ocean's, move entire mountains, create amazing engineering feats, but we can't overcome a few rivers for one of the most important pieces of infrastructure in our state?
And you say I'm trolling lol.
I did not say we can't overcome them. I said they make a big trench infeasible. I believe that both previous government plans had bridge/elevated road over the Torrens. I think the old Labor plan went over the other creeks, and the Liberal version went under them. The new wetland in the south parklands would be part of the mitigation for managing their floods.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5842 Post by rev » Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:04 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:28 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:54 am
SBD wrote:
Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:46 pm


Nice troll !

The trouble is that a trench created by a big bulldozer just can't work anyway, besides it being an ugly scar on the landscape. Who knows how many telephone, internet, water, sewerage and electricity pipes and cables cross the road. Some parts of this predate it being a designated main road so there would have been little effort to collect them near main roads so they can easily be carried on the crossing bridges.

Brown Hill Creek, Keswick Creek and Torrens River are not completely controlled waterways. Every now and then, they get extreme flows that could not reasonably be collected in a pipe carried over a trench. I'm not sure how rain in the T2T trench is removed, but having the runoff from the entire CBD and foothills filling it would overwhelm whatever kind of drainage or pumps are provided.
Other countries build islands in the middle of ocean's, move entire mountains, create amazing engineering feats, but we can't overcome a few rivers for one of the most important pieces of infrastructure in our state?
And you say I'm trolling lol.
I did not say we can't overcome them. I said they make a big trench infeasible. I believe that both previous government plans had bridge/elevated road over the Torrens. I think the old Labor plan went over the other creeks, and the Liberal version went under them. The new wetland in the south parklands would be part of the mitigation for managing their floods.
Relax, I didn't release a detailed master plan.
Oh no a river? Go over it... :shock:

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5843 Post by Jaymz » Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:23 pm

It's pretty disappointing that up until earlier this year, this thread was the most active on the whole forum for a number of years.... and for good reason. This is the most important, not to mention most expensive piece of infrastructure in S.A's history. It's a shame it's been politicized and all the while it grows to be even more expensive every day it's delayed.

I got back from Perth 2 weeks ago, a place I once lived for around 9 years. There is as usual, billions of dollars of infrastructure getting built there, it would boggle your mind if you could see it. It always makes me wonder what the big roadblock is here when it comes to big ticket items :?:

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5844 Post by rev » Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:04 pm

Jaymz wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:23 pm
It's pretty disappointing that up until earlier this year, this thread was the most active on the whole forum for a number of years.... and for good reason. This is the most important, not to mention most expensive piece of infrastructure in S.A's history. It's a shame it's been politicized and all the while it grows to be even more expensive every day it's delayed.

I got back from Perth 2 weeks ago, a place I once lived for around 9 years. There is as usual, billions of dollars of infrastructure getting built there, it would boggle your mind if you could see it. It always makes me wonder what the big roadblock is here when it comes to big ticket items :?:
In short? South Australian's mentality.

The constant "big country town" joke lives permanently in many people's subconscious here. Everyone's content with the status quo.

This project if handled correctly could have helped shift those perceptions and that mentality quickly, as could the riverbank precinct, if it was actually redeveloped into a proper entertainment & night life precinct, as our illustrious leaders once promised it would be the equivalent of south bank but we got a hospital, unis and some new grass, much like festival plaza was meant to be turned into the equivalent of federagiom square but we're getting an office tower and threatened with a second tower.

The mentality of people here allows politicians to bullshit them.
The most profitable, best work to financial reward line of work, in SA, is being a politician.

Other cities, by now, would have had major work underway AND well developed plans released on a link between the NSM and SEF.

But hey, this is Adelaide.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5845 Post by SRW » Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:47 am

Jaymz wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:23 pm
I got back from Perth 2 weeks ago, a place I once lived for around 9 years. There is as usual, billions of dollars of infrastructure getting built there, it would boggle your mind if you could see it. It always makes me wonder what the big roadblock is here when it comes to big ticket items :?:
Money. WA is awash with dollars. SA is not, which both narrows the range of ambition and causes trepidation at the actions we dare to take.
Keep Adelaide Weird

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5846 Post by Saltwater » Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:36 am

Perth also did the hardest bits first, including the first sections of the Kwinana Freeway south of the CBD in the 50's. Meanwhile Adelaide has done the easy bits - the NSM north of Port Road, the Southern Expressway, and SE Freeway, leaving the inner city sections to last. During that time property prices in Australia have boomed and certain interest groups have become very effective and blocking projects they don't like (which I'm not saying is a bad thing - nobody wants to see buildings like the Thebby knocked down to build a freeway).

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5847 Post by rev » Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:27 am

Saltwater wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 8:36 am
nobody wants to see buildings like the Thebby knocked down to build a freeway).
Most people don't care about it.
A vocal minority relying on nostalgia because they went to a concert there once, and given attention by local shit stirring media doesn't equate to popular opinion.

The majority who use South Road just want the damn road fixed already.
To them, a near derelict dump like the thebby is inconsequential.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5848 Post by Saltwater » Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:54 am

If the government was silly enough to go anywhere near the Thebby again a large and vocal group (think global, including big bands that love playing the venue) would quickly mobilise and the government would be forced to retreat.

I get that South Road through the inner west is a carpark most of the time as I live very close to it.

Following the logic of knocking down the Thebby to build a freeway, there would be no concerns with taking a scalpel to any properties along Glen Osmond Road, Cross Road and North East Roads to build a proper functional, cross-city freeway network.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5849 Post by rev » Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:26 pm

Saltwater wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:54 am
If the government was silly enough to go anywhere near the Thebby again a large and vocal group (think global, including big bands that love playing the venue) would quickly mobilise and the government would be forced to retreat.

I get that South Road through the inner west is a carpark most of the time as I live very close to it.

Following the logic of knocking down the Thebby to build a freeway, there would be no concerns with taking a scalpel to any properties along Glen Osmond Road, Cross Road and North East Roads to build a proper functional, cross-city freeway network.
Obviously the venue means something to people, but it's just nostalgia. Should a minorities nostalgic feelings and attachment to a building be a determining factor in altering the course of a major infrastructure project, potentially increasing the cost which is worn by the majority of tax payers? Not to mention the delays which cost everyone.

Do those random bands have to endure South Road traffic?
Are those random bands willing to contribute their money to restoring the building from it's derelict state?
If the answer is no, then what they think is irrelevant. And frankly what they think on a local issue is irrelevant anyway if they don't live here.

And absolutely on a cross city freeway/motorway network.
This is the price that has to be paid now to overcome the congestion issues because of the small town mentality that prevented adequate progress in the past.
But that will only happen if the small town mentality does not prevail again.

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

#5850 Post by claybro » Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:39 pm

SRW wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:47 am
Jaymz wrote:
Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:23 pm
I got back from Perth 2 weeks ago, a place I once lived for around 9 years. There is as usual, billions of dollars of infrastructure getting built there, it would boggle your mind if you could see it. It always makes me wonder what the big roadblock is here when it comes to big ticket items :?:
Money. WA is awash with dollars. SA is not, which both narrows the range of ambition and causes trepidation at the actions we dare to take.
WA was prepared to plan funding of the start of its freeway constructions many years ago by adding a 2 cent per liter levy to fuel to help fund it. All upfront and honest. It has since been removed as other streams of revenue move through, but they were upfront about the task at hand, the multi decade timeframe, and the astronomical cost. The freeways and rail extensions follow reserves that were set aside decades ago. SA has no funding plans via alternative funding (ie tolls or levies)- other than begging the feds for money. There is not even an honest discussion about what is required beyond the next 2 or 3 km stretch of road. It is just poor populist politics from both sides.
Saltwater wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:54 am
Following the logic of knocking down the Thebby to build a freeway, there would be no concerns with taking a scalpel to any properties along Glen Osmond Road, Cross Road and North East Roads to build a proper functional, cross-city freeway network.
Are we still on about knocking down the Thebby? :roll: :roll: :roll: God people are sucked in. There has never been a plan to knock down the Thebby. It does not need to be knocked down to facilitate that intersection underpass. This is all political cloack and dagger. Both the Libs and Labor should be ashamed of themselves over this whole sorry mess. Adelaide is a beautiful vibrant city, but the small town mentality of those in charge at every level is something to behold from a distance.

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