[U/C] Central Market Arcade Redevelopment | 130m | 39 levels

[abc]

7 August, with the view between Gouger Street and Grote Street:

Screenshot_20230809-100746_Video Player.jpg

remember when they demolished John Martins and there was that wide open space on the side of Rundle Mall...I remember thinking it would be great if there were a large plaza in the centre of town, the likes of which are commonplace in Europe

we can't have that here though

[dsriggs]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

[Nathan]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

Now imagine if we had planned to spend $100m on the main one, and then actually followed through with it.

[abc]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

[Patrick_27]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

There was one planned in the 60s/70s for Gawler Place and it was scrapped, they bulldozed a strip of buildings between Rundle Street/Mall and North Terrace (including the York Theatre), with more demolition planned but the plan never eventuated beyond the initial demolition. There are plans for it somewhere in the State Library.

[rev]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

You fail to realise a European style plaza won't work here, and you won't emulate the vibrancy and atmosphere of a European plaza, because the life style in Australia, and "culture" is vastly different to Europe. Some building work isnt going to change that.

[dbl96]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

This can be fixed by reconfiguring the layout of roads in and around the squares.

At the moment the squares are glorified traffic islands, and far too much of the squares space is eaten up with roads. The aim should be to reduce the overall area of roads, slow the traffic down so it is less of a barrier to pedestrian movement, and maximise the connected area of public open space. Where this is impractical (the Grote-Wakefield connection through Victoria Square) a modest-scaled underpass could be considered.

[rev]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

This can be fixed by reconfiguring the layout of roads in and around the squares.

At the moment the squares are glorified traffic islands, and far too much of the squares space is eaten up with roads. The aim should be to reduce the overall area of roads, slow the traffic down so it is less of a barrier to pedestrian movement, and maximise the connected area of public open space. Where this is impractical (the Grote-Wakefield connection through Victoria Square) a modest-scaled underpass could be considered.

Victoria Square elevated, with King William Street running straight under it instead of around it's edges at ground level, with an intersection underneath the square with Wakefield st. Tram line routed around the western edge, keep the slip lane in front of the Hilton and opposite end in front of the Flinders building (under ground car park for police security I believe)

[Ursus Maritimus]

I certainly wish we had European-style piazzas, but I also agree that Aussies won't take to that kind of thing like the Europeans. Adelaide ain't Prague.

In my view, the key would be putting such a piazza in a place that naturally gets foot traffic because of all the surrounding businesses, and have no roads between the pedestrian and the piazza. You need a lot of people to get that momentum of wandering over, and having to wait at a pedestrian crossing for the green man is a psychological barrier to wandering, as well as a physical one.

Will this development, with a huge apartment building and expanded retail, require any change to the traffic light cycles or whatever to cope with the increased foot traffic?

[abc]

I certainly wish we had European-style piazzas, but I also agree that Aussies won't take to that kind of thing like the Europeans. Adelaide ain't Prague.

Aussies would take to it, however greedy Aussie developers, greedy city councils and most of all control freak state governments would not

there's a reason public plazas don't exist in Australian cities and its historical, however the reasons still exist

The British didn't want the public to be able to gather in large numbers in a central city location. We saw this play out in 2020/2021, particularly in Melbourne, but also other places.

[Algernon]

Yeah, imagine if we had a large public square in the centre of Adelaide! Maybe you could even add some more. Can you imagine if we had, like, 5 squares spread throughout the CBD? Maybe another one in North Adelaide for good measure? But, alas...

you fail to see the difference between a public plaza and a square which is surrounded by roads such as we have in Adelaide. Our squares are a joke compared to European plazas.

A plaza on the side of Rundle Mall, which is a pedestrian zone and did exist for a short time created an entirely different atmosphere in the centre of town.

This can be fixed by reconfiguring the layout of roads in and around the squares.

At the moment the squares are glorified traffic islands, and far too much of the squares space is eaten up with roads. The aim should be to reduce the overall area of roads, slow the traffic down so it is less of a barrier to pedestrian movement, and maximise the connected area of public open space. Where this is impractical (the Grote-Wakefield connection through Victoria Square) a modest-scaled underpass could be considered.

Part of the issue is that the 5 squares in Adelaide (and also the others in North Adelaide) are neither parks nor squares. They're just a bit of each. Squares can be bound by roads or have roads through them, but you're right in that the roads eat up too much space. Further, the roads are arterials and that just doesn't work at all. If you're crossing traffic lights over 4 lanes of traffic, then it just isn't going to work. Also, not being paved makes them more like a park, but nobody is going to them to experience an island of tranquility in the city - they're loud as hell from vehicle noise. And not being paved also gives them less utility over the course of a whole year because when it's wet or dewy, you're just not going to walk on it.

Someone later mentions "this aint Prague". Well to continue on those lines, I'd say a couple of things. Public squares in CR (and all over Europe, but I live here so this is where I'll comment) aren't necessarily devoid of traffic. Actually, it's quite common for tram lines to go dead down the middle of them. But at their periphery, they directly front buildings on squares. Adelaide has buildings (almost 0 retails as well), then road, then square/park. That just doesn't work. If you have foot traffic around the park, you'll get foot traffic within.

[Prodical]

This is not Europe: Please can take these debates move to the pub so we do not waste our time going to a thread update thinking there is some news?

Took a pretty ordinary photo from across Grote Street last night - it is a big block of land.

[gnrc_louis]

This is not Europe: Please can take these debates move to the pub so we do not waste our time going to a thread update thinking there is some news?

Took a pretty ordinary photo from across Grote Street last night - it is a big block of land.

This picture illustrates well how big the site is

[Ursus Maritimus]

Precisely. The critical thing is walking out of a shop or cafe and already being in the square, no mental or physical effort required. And good point about paved versus grass. For me personally, I'd much rather walk around a paved plaza in winter than squelch into a muddy grassy park.

One of my favourite streets in Australia is Swanston St, Melbourne. It's almost entirely pedestrianised, so it just feels right when you're walking along. As inconvenient it is for us motorists, restricting road traffic is the key to a walkable city.

More on topic, I reckon this development will increase the foot traffic in the area. It has to, and I think that's great. The Central Market is already the most-visited tourist destination in South Australia (so I read somewhere) and this'll put it even more on the map.

[ChillyPhilly]

From 16 August.