COM: Port Stanvac Desalination Plant | 100gL | $1.8b

[Bulldozer]

Let's hope the planners have enough insight on this!

I wouldn't worry about oil spills.

Firstly, oil floats on the top of water and the intake is underwater. Secondly, reverse osmosis desalination forces water through extremely fine membranes under very high pressure - if oil managed to somehow get sucked into the intake and make it through the pretreatment stage then it would almost certainly clog the membranes. Lastly, consider that tankers dock quite a distance off-shore and the time that it would take for oil to reach the inlet which would be close to shore and that there was/is/would be an emergency response crew always on standby to contain and mop up any spills.

[rubberman]

Hi Jimmy,

Whether our water restrictions would be solved by a desal plant would depend on how big it was and how it was operated.

If the philosophy was to make it as small (read cheap) as possible and only to use it during times of drought, then the effect would be merely to reduce the severity of restrictions. If the philosophy was to make it big enough and operate it all the time, then it could eliminate the restrictions. The first alternative is cheaper and also over time is surprisingly low in greenhouse gas issues compared with the second alternative which needs power all the time, not just in years which are drought years.

The question of salinity is a furphy. The present sewage treatment plants still put out water that is less saline than sea water, so a desal plant would overall bring the balance back a bit - although in different locations. In addition, you could reduce the salinity effects further by some clever piping and pumping arrangements.

The location of the plant should be near the areas to be supplied - long pipelines are costly and have high pumping (and greenhouse) costs. The secret is to design the plant to look ok, and not like an industrial plant. For example, most of us would have gone past the major pumping station that feeds the Glenelg Sewage Treatment Plant. Yet you would not know it was a major pumping station to look at it. You could make a desal plant look like a luxury condo if you wanted to. Or landscape round it so that it could not be seen from the adjacent areas. Easy to do. It is just that engineers seem to think that pipes, tanks, stacks, wires and poles look good. They are always surprised and hurt that the rest of the community thinks such items are not works of art. The secret of making something look good is to tell the engineers that unless they make it look good, you will turn overall project control over to an architect. *snirt*

As far as Marty's comment is concerned - he is half right. SA has not augmented its water supplies since Little Para dam was built almost twenty five years ago. It does not take a planning engineer to work out that a quarter century of normal city growth would strain system capacity and that even a mild drought would tip us over the edge.

It used to be that infrastructure was built and augmented as the city grew, so that droughts would have limited effect.

Under this philosophy it meant that we then had a second line of defence if there was a real drought or a disaster that affected some of our supplies. This was the n-1 philosophy that meant there was always some cover if something went wrong. Similarly, restrictions and conservation were something that was a next line of emergency.

What the effect has been of not increasing infrastructure in line with increasing population and using conservation and demand management is that now if there is ever a disaster or emergency, there is absolutely zero buffer against something going wrong. For a major city like Adelaide, it is totally wrong for Governments to leave us so highly exposed to risk. That is what Marty ought to be hammering.

[monotonehell]

As far as Marty's comment is concerned - he is half right. SA has not augmented its water supplies since Little Para dam was built almost twenty five years ago. It does not take a planning engineer to work out that a quarter century of normal city growth would strain system capacity and that even a mild drought would tip us over the edge.

It used to be that infrastructure was built and augmented as the city grew, so that droughts would have limited effect.

Under this philosophy it meant that we then had a second line of defence if there was a real drought or a disaster that affected some of our supplies. This was the n-1 philosophy that meant there was always some cover if something went wrong. Similarly, restrictions and conservation were something that was a next line of emergency.

What the effect has been of not increasing infrastructure in line with increasing population and using conservation and demand management is that now if there is ever a disaster or emergency, there is absolutely zero buffer against something going wrong. For a major city like Adelaide, it is totally wrong for Governments to leave us so highly exposed to risk. That is what Marty ought to be hammering.

Is this because infrastructure has increasingly been put into private hands where large scale forethought fails the corporate model cost benefit test? Or am I barking up the wrong nationalisation tree?

[rubberman]

Hi Monotone,

Answer is yes and no.

Theoretically, what was supposed to happen is that Government would retain the planning function, since as you point out there is no incentive for the private sector to do that really.

However, two things happened here. First SA Water got rid of most of its planners (saved money, right?), and those left, while quite ok, were insufficient in number to do it all. Second, faced with the choice a few years back of saying to Government that big $$ investment in infrastructure was required, or just telling the pollies what they wanted to hear (ie that we could defer that investment by using demand management and recycling), SA Water upper management told the pollies and the public what they wanted to hear. This of course p*ssed off the planners who saw upper management selling the State down hill.

Of course those upper management persons are now long moved on, having gotten their yearly bonuses, and we don't have the infrastructure, and most of the planners capable of doing the job are on the cusp of retirement. (A good planner can now get $150/hr anywhere in Australia - those hanging on in SA Water are either doing so out of loyalty, or haven't twigged to their value yet

[rubberman]

I just had a thought for a better location for the desalination plant.

One of the problems of desal plants is the disposal of the brine waste stream. This always figures in environmental assessments, which has two negatives: first it slows the process down, and second, there is always a cost either in dollars, or to the environment of whatever the solution turns out to be.

My suggestion is to locate the plant just north of Adelaide rather than south. The location proposed would be at the inlet to the Penrice Soda salt works - Soda plants NEED salt as a raw ingredient. If the desal plant were located here, then the waste stream from the desal plant, would actually benefit the Penrice Soda people since it would increase the supply of brine to their works. ie a win - win situation for the environment, the desal plant and the Penrice Soda plant, with no brine going back to the ocean.

There would also be an emergency alternative disposal option as well, since the brine could also go into the discharge from the Bolivar Sewage Treatment Works - this is much less than seawater salinity, so that even if all the brine from the desal went there, it would still not be over saline for ocean discharge.

Also, it would leave the Pt Stanvac site available for residential redevelopment in a really nice area.

[monotonehell]

I just had a thought for a better location for the desalination plant.

One of the problems of desal plants is the disposal of the brine waste stream. This always figures in environmental assessments, which has two negatives: first it slows the process down, and second, there is always a cost either in dollars, or to the environment of whatever the solution turns out to be.

My suggestion is to locate the plant just north of Adelaide rather than south. The location proposed would be at the inlet to the Penrice Soda salt works - Soda plants NEED salt as a raw ingredient. If the desal plant were located here, then the waste stream from the desal plant, would actually benefit the Penrice Soda people since it would increase the supply of brine to their works. ie a win - win situation for the environment, the desal plant and the Penrice Soda plant, with no brine going back to the ocean.

There would also be an emergency alternative disposal option as well, since the brine could also go into the discharge from the Bolivar Sewage Treatment Works - this is much less than seawater salinity, so that even if all the brine from the desal went there, it would still not be over saline for ocean discharge.

Also, it would leave the Pt Stanvac site available for residential redevelopment in a really nice area.

An interesting idea, but wasn't the brine water disposal problem proved to be a furphy?

[rubberman]

Monotonehell,

It is a furphy to some extent. However, here is the problem. If it is done at Pt Stanvac, then it will still need detailed addressing in any environmental review (which takes time as my post says), and infrastructure to provide dilution (ie, how you would fix it is to mix it with more sea water till the increase in salinity of the final discharge water is within limits - ie pumps pipes and tanks needed).

Also, imho the land at Pt Stanvac has more potential for high quality residential use than the land around Penrice (flat, boring and uninteresting mud flats and flood plains).

So, even though the brine stream removal is not a technical problem, relocating the plant would provide a lesser cost of that part of the infrastructure, provide a benefit for Penrice, and make land available for development. (I am assuming that the other plant costs would not change - of course that is the weakness in my argument - if other infrastructure such as interconnections and power supplies needed higher upgrading it would change the situation).

[Wayno]

Also, imho the land at Pt Stanvac has more potential for high quality residential use than the land around Penrice (flat, boring and uninteresting mud flats and flood plains).
<snip>

Not sure the land at Pt Stanvac could ever be used for residential - i believe there are significant toxic soil concerns...

[frank1]

Also, imho the land at Pt Stanvac has more potential for high quality residential use than the land around Penrice (flat, boring and uninteresting mud flats and flood plains).
<snip>

Not sure the land at Pt Stanvac could ever be used for residential - i believe there are significant toxic soil concerns...

Yeah that's true. It is the same for old petrol station sites where there are underground petrol tanks. No residents can live on them for health concerns, so the site remains empty. They do however allow industrial zones on old petrol sites. This would also apply to the pt. Stanvac site

[Wayno]

Also, imho the land at Pt Stanvac has more potential for high quality residential use than the land around Penrice (flat, boring and uninteresting mud flats and flood plains).
<snip>

Not sure the land at Pt Stanvac could ever be used for residential - i believe there are significant toxic soil concerns...

Yeah that's true. It is the same for old petrol station sites where there are underground petrol tanks. No residents can live on them for health concerns, so the site remains empty. They do however allow industrial zones on old petrol sites. This would also apply to the pt. Stanvac site

such a shame - fantastic view from that area...

[urban]

This should take some pressure off our water resources well before the desalination plant is finished..

From AdelaideNOW

THE Federal Government has announced $34.5 million in funding for a water recycling project in the southern suburbs.

Federal Water Minister Penny Wong said the Christies Beach Treatment Plant will be upgraded to produce recycled water for southern suburbs industrial zones.

It will also be used to water gardens and sports fields, and pipe infrastructure will be extended to take recycled water to local wineries.

The plan is forecast to provide nearly three billion litres of recycled water once the project is complete in 2010.

"Climate change means we need new sources of water that don't rely entirely on rainfall," Ms Wong said.

"This recycling project (means) businesses and households in the Onkaparinga area have access to water for watering gardens and crops, without drawing on precious supplies of drinking water."

[skyliner]

I just hope the desal plant does'nt disappear off the radar due to 'less pressure' to do so. We must plan for the future - ie. Adelaide 2050 pop 2.0m etc etc.

ADELAIDE - CITY ON THE RISE.

[monotonehell]

The government really needs to come out with all the facts to quell the mis-information driven fears regarding output salinity - loudly and forcefully. The environmental impact fears are starting to gain ground in the community. This is a technology we NEED to pursue and do well. Along with various alternative energy supplies. We seem to never move forward with these problems. The longer we delay the worse the pain will be in the near future.

[rhino]

From today's Adelaide Now:

Lease signed for Adelaide desal plant
June 18, 2008 01:55pm

THE State Government has signed a lease with oil company Exxon Mobil to put a $10 million pilot desalination plant on the company's land in Adelaide's south.
Premier Mike Rann said that setting up the plant on the site of Mobil's mothballed Port Stanvac oil refinery was the next step in fast-tracking Adelaide's $1.1 billion desalination plant.
Once completed, the major plant is expected to provide up to 25 per cent of Adelaide's annual water needs.
"The pilot plant tests filtration and pre-treatment technology to determine the best processes for full scale desalination at Pt Stanvac to produce quality drinking water," Mr Rann said.
"Negotiations are continuing on permanent land requirements for the $1.1 billion main plant, with more information expected by the end of the year."
Water Security Minister Karlene Maywald said contractors had started assembling outfall pipes for the pilot plant which would then be floated offshore and towed to Pt Stanvac.
The minister said an extensive environmental assessment was also continuing for the main desalination plant, looking at a number of issues including the impact of brine discharge and the consequences for the marine habitat.
"The project's independent environmental technical review panel will assess all of the environmental testing processes to ensure they meet the highest standards," Ms Maywald said.

[skyliner]

Saw this Rhino in the Fin Review - next day - slightly less detail. Carries good credibility from AFR. Great to see this actually moving. Brisbane was nearly caught out with their shortages due late action. (Down to 16% - even with ideas of evacuation mooted - scary!).

ADELAIDE - CITY ON THE MOVE