[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[rhino]

bike lanes don't exist on Expressway's anyway.

They certainly don't, and neither do apostophe's

[SBD]

The "new delivery strategy" dated May 2015 to deliver the project in ten years proposes

Lowered road (South of Ashwin Parade to North of Anzac Highway)

• Predominantly residential area;
• Cut and cover tunnel under James Congdon Drive minimises land acquisition of adjacent businesses;
• Short tunnel at Sir Donald Bradman Drive is required to minimise footprint of the intersection and not impact state heritage buildings;
• Short tunnel at Henley Beach Road minimises land acquisition in the area and eliminates the need to encroach on St George College.

(page 26)

[Nort]

The "new delivery strategy" dated May 2015 to deliver the project in ten years proposes

Lowered road (South of Ashwin Parade to North of Anzac Highway)

• Predominantly residential area;
• Cut and cover tunnel under James Congdon Drive minimises land acquisition of adjacent businesses;
• Short tunnel at Sir Donald Bradman Drive is required to minimise footprint of the intersection and not impact state heritage buildings;
• Short tunnel at Henley Beach Road minimises land acquisition in the area and eliminates the need to encroach on St George College.

(page 26)

That makes sense actually. I was thinking that going in and out of short tunnels would make South Road too rollercoaster, but of course if it's already a trench between the tunnel sections it will be quite level.

[Patrick_27]

Whilst there areas that ideally require a tunnel, you're dreaming if you think there is going to be any tunnel works along this corridor. 2015 estimates to complete this corridor from Tonsley to Torrens were at $4.5b, $2b of which is for the section of Torrens to Gallipoli, and estimate state that $1b of the total $4.5b was for property acquisition alone. The current government are likely working to those figures which wouldn't include tunnel works (do you people realise how much a tunnel of any length actually costs to build? - let me tell you that $1b in property acquisition is still cheaper) The likely scenario will be a trenched roadway with the loss of significant heritage buildings along the Thebarton section of this corridor and the disjoining of this suburb - the same kind of problems they were going to have with most of the MATS plan. Which begs the question, how they're going to deal with the public outcry regarding Thebarton Theatre, probably the most important asset along this strip... But, it's a Liberal government, they're use to public outcry from their policies so they should be alright.

[Goodsy]

Whilst there areas that ideally require a tunnel, you're dreaming if you think there is going to be any tunnel works along this corridor. 2015 estimates to complete this corridor from Tonsley to Torrens were at $4.5b, $2b of which is for the section of Torrens to Gallipoli, and estimate state that $1b of the total $4.5b was for property acquisition alone. The current government are likely working to those figures which wouldn't include tunnel works (do you people realise how much a tunnel of any length actually costs to build? - let me tell you that $1b in property acquisition is still cheaper) The likely scenario will be a trenched roadway with the loss of significant heritage buildings along the Thebarton section of this corridor and the disjoining of this suburb - the same kind of problems they were going to have with most of the MATS plan. Which begs the question, how they're going to deal with the public outcry regarding Thebarton Theatre, probably the most important asset along this strip... But, it's a Liberal government, they're use to public outcry from their policies so they should be alright.

Cut and cover with no on or off ramps at that intersection

[SBD]

Whilst there areas that ideally require a tunnel, you're dreaming if you think there is going to be any tunnel works along this corridor. 2015 estimates to complete this corridor from Tonsley to Torrens were at $4.5b, $2b of which is for the section of Torrens to Gallipoli, and estimate state that $1b of the total $4.5b was for property acquisition alone. The current government are likely working to those figures which wouldn't include tunnel works (do you people realise how much a tunnel of any length actually costs to build? - let me tell you that $1b in property acquisition is still cheaper) The likely scenario will be a trenched roadway with the loss of significant heritage buildings along the Thebarton section of this corridor and the disjoining of this suburb - the same kind of problems they were going to have with most of the MATS plan. Which begs the question, how they're going to deal with the public outcry regarding Thebarton Theatre, probably the most important asset along this strip... But, it's a Liberal government, they're use to public outcry from their policies so they should be alright.

Is there a significant engineering distinction between a cut-and-cover tunnel and a short-but-wide bridge?

I suspect that the language of "short tunnel" is more accessible for most people at the conceptual level than descriptions of different kinds of bridges. The point would be that the surface road also goes over the bridge, rather than around it like at Port and Grange Roads.

[claybro]

Whilst there areas that ideally require a tunnel, you're dreaming if you think there is going to be any tunnel works along this corridor. 2015 estimates to complete this corridor from Tonsley to Torrens were at $4.5b, $2b of which is for the section of Torrens to Gallipoli, and estimate state that $1b of the total $4.5b was for property acquisition alone. The current government are likely working to those figures which wouldn't include tunnel works (do you people realise how much a tunnel of any length actually costs to build? - let me tell you that $1b in property acquisition is still cheaper) The likely scenario will be a trenched roadway with the loss of significant heritage buildings along the Thebarton section of this corridor and the disjoining of this suburb - the same kind of problems they were going to have with most of the MATS plan. Which begs the question, how they're going to deal with the public outcry regarding Thebarton Theatre, probably the most important asset along this strip... But, it's a Liberal government, they're use to public outcry from their policies so they should be alright.

The Thebarton Theatre is some 50m back from this intersection, so it can probably be worked around. I would say the school is more likely to be disrupted. Bearing in mind those school buildings adjacent to the intersection were only added about 15-20 years ago. The old Thebarton library (formerly council chambers) and the large church on the bend opposite are also going to prove an issue. There is the sharp bend to be ironed out which will require a removal of a number of old homes on the western side of the alignment. (Don't think there will be much backlash about the homes). Another pinch point will be the West Thebby Hotel and the community centre (recently constructed)-one or the other will have to go. It will be interesting indeed.

[duke]

The state government should buy a TBM and just start digging, similar to Elon's Boing Company.

QLD bought two years ago http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/Id/70740
They were only used for that project though.

This would allow tunnelling around the city to be an on-going cost, rather than a project cost.

[Goodsy]

The state government should buy a TBM and just start digging, similar to Elon's Boing Company.

QLD bought two years ago http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/Id/70740
They were only used for that project though.

This would allow tunnelling around the city to be an on-going cost, rather than a project cost.

Maybe we can get Melbournes when they're finished with them

[[Shuz]]

Melbourne's is in use until about 2026, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept theirs for Melbourne Metro 2.

[Goodsy]

Melbourne's is in use until about 2026, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept theirs for Melbourne Metro 2.

The TBM's should have finished their job by 2021

[rev]

Whilst there areas that ideally require a tunnel, you're dreaming if you think there is going to be any tunnel works along this corridor. 2015 estimates to complete this corridor from Tonsley to Torrens were at $4.5b, $2b of which is for the section of Torrens to Gallipoli, and estimate state that $1b of the total $4.5b was for property acquisition alone. The current government are likely working to those figures which wouldn't include tunnel works (do you people realise how much a tunnel of any length actually costs to build? - let me tell you that $1b in property acquisition is still cheaper) The likely scenario will be a trenched roadway with the loss of significant heritage buildings along the Thebarton section of this corridor and the disjoining of this suburb - the same kind of problems they were going to have with most of the MATS plan. Which begs the question, how they're going to deal with the public outcry regarding Thebarton Theatre, probably the most important asset along this strip... But, it's a Liberal government, they're use to public outcry from their policies so they should be alright.

The Thebarton Theatre is some 50m back from this intersection, so it can probably be worked around. I would say the school is more likely to be disrupted. Bearing in mind those school buildings adjacent to the intersection were only added about 15-20 years ago. The old Thebarton library (formerly council chambers) and the large church on the bend opposite are also going to prove an issue. There is the sharp bend to be ironed out which will require a removal of a number of old homes on the western side of the alignment. (Don't think there will be much backlash about the homes). Another pinch point will be the West Thebby Hotel and the community centre (recently constructed)-one or the other will have to go. It will be interesting indeed.

There's no need to touch Theby theater or the school.
And btw, on the south road side of Theby, that's the old council chambers which are heritage listed.

Here, have a look at how much isn't heritage listed on the opposite side where they can do a lot with. The alignment of Henley Beach/South Road intersections doesn't have to remain the same, you know.

lol.jpg (544.41 KiB) Viewed 3549 times

With the heritage listed stuff, I believe it depends on where it's listed as heritage. Could also be removed.
Pretty sure there was a few heritage listed properties along the T2T section that are now recycled building materials.

And if anyone thinks there's going to be a cut and cover tunnel, think again. Where are they going to put all that traffic while either north bound or south bound lanes are all closed? There's no way that for 2-4 years they will reduce a large section of South Road to 1 lane in each direction. It will be traffic congestion the likes of which nightmares are made of.
The reason they've been able to do work on T2T while traffic flows around it, is because of the property acquired/demolished which allowed them to slap down bitumen for temporary roads around where they were working, and in some cases the surface road it self(or layers of it anyway).

I think a lot of you will be surprised when they do start bulldozing property between T2T and Anzac Hwy along the entire length.
Think about it. You think we're going to get a tunnel for 2.8 billion along that entire stretch? We're talking about 4.5km. I'm sure Shuz has calculations from other tunnels elsewhere what they cost per meter or km.
Where's the tunnel going to start? Where's it going to end? Look how narrow the majority of that stretch is. Where are they going to put a tunnel entrance and exit? How about the ventilation shafts....? Or emergency exits..?....if they can't knock down property for silly heritage reasons...how are they going to build a tunnel with everything required..

The trench will go on.

[Goodsy]

With some realigning there's plenty of room

[jorcoga]

State heritage stuff on South Road between the Torrens and the Southern Expy for the curious:

The Society of Magicians -if you're familiar with the area it's the underground bunker there (corner Ashley St, West side of road)
Thebarton Theatre/old Thebarton council offices (cnr Henley Beach, W)
Adelaide Electric Supply Co warehouses (cnr Donald Bradman, E)
Ackland House (next to the tram overpass, E)
St. Mary's Anglican Church (just past Daws Road heading South, E)

I'd suggest that of those the Society of Magicians is the one that'd be the least politically fraught to bulldoze, but simultaneously it'd probably be the easiest of those to build around.

[Llessur2002]

Here's the map if it helps: