PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

[Norman]

Sighs. The stupid bleeping Government still has no bleeping idea.

4 extra trams to service an extension twice as long as the previous? If anything, capacity will be further strained! The solution is so bleeping simple, which is to install the 4th section onto the entire fleet of Flexitys. That will improve the capacity by about 20-25% and has absolutely no impact on level crossing restrictions, etc. which appears to be the arguement that the Government is using against purchasing more trams.

No, they CAN run more trams through the level crossings, it was only South Road that had the restriction. However, the Overpass will be done when we get the new Flexities.

[Shuz]

Sighs. The stupid bleeping Government still has no bleeping idea.

4 extra trams to service an extension twice as long as the previous? If anything, capacity will be further strained! The solution is so bleeping simple, which is to install the 4th section onto the entire fleet of Flexitys. That will improve the capacity by about 20-25% and has absolutely no impact on level crossing restrictions, etc. which appears to be the arguement that the Government is using against purchasing more trams.

No, they CAN run more trams through the level crossings, it was only South Road that had the restriction. However, the Overpass will be done when we get the new Flexities.

Well, I'll take your word for that Norman. I assume from what you've said that the number of crossings allowed is measured up against to the average traffic flow which goes through the crossing?

[Norman]

Well, I'll take your word for that Norman. I assume from what you've said that the number of crossings allowed is measured up against to the average traffic flow which goes through the crossing?

Probably.

Not really helping, am I?

[AG]

Sighs. The stupid bleeping Government still has no bleeping idea.

4 extra trams to service an extension twice as long as the previous? If anything, capacity will be further strained! The solution is so bleeping simple, which is to install the 4th section onto the entire fleet of Flexitys. That will improve the capacity by about 20-25% and has absolutely no impact on level crossing restrictions, etc. which appears to be the arguement that the Government is using against purchasing more trams.

There's a few logistical and economic issues that you don't seem to appreciate.

Some platforms are not long enough to handle trams longer than the ones currently in service. A few of those are in tight spots where it would be impossible to extend without completely rebuilding around it. In a nutshell, the tram line doesn't currently have the appropriate infrastructure or the vehicles to handle extra capacity, it needs both. The other issue is that the manufacturer of the trams, Bombardier, may not bother manufacturing extra modules on such a small order, it would have to be tagged onto a more significant order.

[shiftaling]

I wonder when they're gonna start ripping up the roads? Hope it's soon

Also, maybe you PT gurus can tell me whether they will release details about the services (timetables and such) very long before they actually start running? What did they do for the north Terrace extension?

I only wonder because It seems to me that there's not that many more passengers between North Terrace and Hindmarsh except for events at the Entertainment Centre, so I wonder if the services will be more limited at other times?

[Will409]

Sighs. The stupid bleeping Government still has no bleeping idea.

4 extra trams to service an extension twice as long as the previous? If anything, capacity will be further strained! The solution is so bleeping simple, which is to install the 4th section onto the entire fleet of Flexitys. That will improve the capacity by about 20-25% and has absolutely no impact on level crossing restrictions, etc. which appears to be the arguement that the Government is using against purchasing more trams.

You do have to remember that the City West - Entertainment Centre section will have a lower traffic demand then the current City West - Glenelg line. Provided there is a certain amount of through service running of the current fleet, there should be JUST enough trams to run the services. One should also remember that we will also have hybrid tram-trains running in a couple of years that will further add to services.

The "Terrace to Terrace" timetables were released around a month or so before the line was ready for traffic so I wouldn't go looking around for City West - Entertainment Centre tram timetables from the AdelaideMetro site just yet.

In other news, the new tram stop locations have now been released from the DTEI. Railpage member Pressman was present at a DTEI meeting a few days ago and this is what he has found out.

It's happening! DTEI have released their timeline for the Rail revitalisation in Adelaide.
Refer my post over here http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1075860.htm#1075860
Sections relating to the Trams listed below.

Trams
4 new flexity's reportedly already ordered
5 second hand trams required ASAP (specs currently in preparation)
Order new 600Vdc substation within the next two months (12 month+ lead time)
Completion date for the stage 2 expansion (entertainment centre) is only 20 months away!!!
Routing for stage 2 is still being planned, no decision yet whether it will be median or kerbside.
Two bridges will require major modifications regardless of if the route is median or kerbside based.
The planning of this extension is being designed to have minimal impact of the existing traffic capacity of Port Rd.

2010 / 2011
Order 15 Dual Voltage Trams
Tramline stage 2 completed (April 2010)
New trams arrive (4 x Flexity) - (to coincide with stage 2 completion)
Electrification of Outer Harbor/Grange lines begins (late 2010- early 2011)

2013
Outer Harbor/Grange lines Electrification completed
Outer Harbor/Grange converted to SG
West lakes rail link construction commences (stage 3 tram extension)

2014
Delivery of first Dual Voltage Tram units (25kV/600Vdc)

2015
West Lakes line completion (stage 3)
Port Adelaide to Semaphore tramline construction commences (stage 4)

2018
Port Adelaide - Semaphore line completion (stage 4)

Further Notes on Stage 2 of the tram extension.
Proposed stops
City West (existing)
New Hospital (vicinity of West & North tce junction)
Port Rd / George St
Bonython Park (Circus/Event site)
Entertainment Centre (within Port Rd Median) (includes a Park-and-ride facility - this may be within the existing Entertainment centre carpark depending on negotiations with centre management)

The junction of West & North Tces and Port Road is likely to have a major redevelopment as it is invisaged the New Hospital site will see the entry/exit of 10,000 vehicles daily.

DTEI's response to the question of the tramline continuing down Port Rd.

The Outer Harbor rail line already has all the level crossings to bring trains into the city very quickly. It is also hard to justify creating another rail corridor so close by. The trams will run down Port Rd to the Entertainment Centre to provide extra stops, and the park-and-ride facility.
The tram line will be designed to minimise impact of traffic capacity (Entertainment Centre to City West section)

Source:- DTEI Rail Revitalisation Industry Update Seminar held at Morphettville 24th June2008

[jk1237]

Now I am assuming that the 4 extra flexities ordered are going to have the 4 sections, not 3, as the platforms are designed to fit these in already. Anyone know, 409? Im assuming they will be similar, but a newer model of the current flexity

[Düsseldorfer]

hmm 5 second hand trams required asap?? cant they just use the old trams?

The solution is so bleeping simple, which is to install the 4th section onto the entire fleet of Flexitys

what i've heard is that the Flexity Classic trams apparently can't have sections added or subtracted without massive and very expensive modifications (TA would probably have to send them back to Bombardier in Siegen)...but they can have multiple unit systems added to allow two or more trams to be joined together (but TA can't do that either because the platforms aren't long enough and they don't have enuf trams)

but if longer flexity classics are ordered then they could be something like the trams in Dresden or Leipzig:

[Will409]

I'd imagine that the extra Flexis ordered will be to the same design saving the expense of a seperate spare parts pool and maintenance staff training for such a small class of tram. By keeping to the same design, they can also use these extra trams for Glenelg line services. It is possible to run 4 section Flexis in Adelaide so long as the driver pulls up precisely. In other words, the ends of the tram will over hang the ends of the platform but all the doors will still be accessable.

As for the 5 extra trams, the H class fail DDA complience (they don't so much walk over the 'boundry' but fly over it) and you have to remember that they are 80 years old next year. Would you like to buy spare parts for an 80 year old tram in everyday use? Keeping them on heritage services and emergency revenue use reduces the wear and tear they undergo in service to an acceptable level.

[Cruise]

Is Noarlunga line still expected to be completed in 2012?

[Will409]

Like all things with the State Budget announcement, we will have to wait and see. I will let you all know when the contracts are let or any other update needs to be reported.

[Norman]

Just something to remember... once the new Train/Trams are in operation, the City Shuttle will cease. This will mean more services in peak hour for the Glenelg line (Say, every 5 Mins)

[Omicron]

Just something to remember... once the new Train/Trams are in operation, the City Shuttle will cease. This will mean more services in peak hour for the Glenelg line (Say, every 5 Mins)

Hooray! No more dense travellers waiting at South Terrace attempting to squeeze onto an already-packed Glenelg-bound tram, simply because they lack the basic reading comprehension skills to determine the difference between 'CITY SHUTTLE' and 'GLENELG, Moseley Square'.

[Aidan]

Just something to remember... once the new Train/Trams are in operation, the City Shuttle will cease. This will mean more services in peak hour for the Glenelg line (Say, every 5 Mins)

Am I the only one who doubts this claim?

[Norman]

Just something to remember... once the new Train/Trams are in operation, the City Shuttle will cease. This will mean more services in peak hour for the Glenelg line (Say, every 5 Mins)

Am I the only one who doubts this claim?

Well, there's no point as the West Lakes and Semaphore tram lines will traverse the City instead of the City Shuttles.