[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

[claybro]

Yes quite right. I never quite got the need for the Northen connector when Pt Wakefield road can easily be developed to cope for the forseeable future. If the rail component (which was never guarnateed in the proposal) is needed to divert freight from the northern suburbs then consider that as a seperate issue. The millions saved can be put into the central section Regency to Darlington.

[drsmith]

Port Wakefield Road was originally slated to be upgraded to a 6-lane freeway north of Salisbury Highway as part of the Northern Expressway project. This was abandoned in favour of the interim upgrade that was built and the Northern Connector.

The question between segmented upgrades of the Salisbury Highway/Port Wakefield Road portion and construction of the Northern Connector is really about the time value of money in the cost difference between the two. In favour of the segmental upgrade of the Salisbury Highway/Port Wakefield Road portion is that the land appears available, some parts of PWR are already 3-lanes in each direction including a number of the signalised intersections and the existing PWR bridge/culvert structures appear wide enough to support 3-lanes in each direction. Also, I think all of the signalised intersections on that section of PWR are currently T-junctions resulting in shorter signal phase sequences than is typical for an at-grade urban arterial.

[claybro]

So i guess we need to ask if the Northern connector is another overkill solution from the same people that brought us the Superway, when it would appear a much improved PWR covers pretty much the same alignment with the same capacity and speed at probably half the cost? In hindsight for future referance we really need to look at the spectacular infastructure projects of the last 5 years with a critical mind and ask..
1. Would a shorter duplication of the Southern expressway ie from Woodcroft only, or no dulication at all allow the savings to be better spent on the Darlington grade separations?
2. Would a simplified Superway ie not one the height of Mt Lofty have allowed grade separation and widening all the way to Port Road?
3. Would not extending the Noarlunga line to Seaford have allowed for electrification of all suburban lines?
4. Lets not even look too closely at what a less extravagant RAH would have allowed in the health department.
These are all legacies of Rann, Foley and co..and only time will tell if we got good value for money.

[Phantom]

I know I'm probably breaking the cardinal rule of this forum by bringing "news" to this forum from Adelaide Now, but I figured it kinda belonged here... Also, I hope I'm not doing anything wrong copying this from one website news source to this forum!

SOUTH Australian taxpayers face an estimated $500 million bill to complete the planned Darlington Interchange, after Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's weekend promise of a major cash injection.

SA Transport and Infrastructure Minister Tom Koutsantonis says advice from his department, which undertook a comprehensive study of the interchange in 2010, confirmed the project has a total price tag of $1 billion.

Mr Abbott on Saturday pledged $500 million for underpasses to stream Southern Expressway and South Rd traffic underneath Sturt Rd and Flinders Dr, bypassing traffic lights and cutting transport times for motorists.

Mr Abbott later said "full engineering studies haven't been done", but he anticipated it would cost about $750 million and State Government funding would be required for it to go ahead.



An excerpt of the departmental advice, released by Mr Koutsantonis, states the underpass would cost $900 million and a non-stop connector to the Southern Expressway is priced "in the order of $120 million". It states optional extra works to connect Flinders Medical Centre and University to the city with rail would cost another $800 million, pushing the total price to $1.8 billion.

Plans to have an interchange in that spot, which has been described as the city's worst bottleneck, have been circulating for years but failed to eventuate. Mr Koutsantonis said SA "can't give this offer serious consideration until Mr Abbott is prepared to put forward a properly costed, adequately funded proposal".

The plan on the table was "grossly inadequate on cost and scope", he said.

SA Opposition transport spokeswoman Vickie Chapman said the $1 billion price tag was well above previous State Government estimates and the Liberals would consider funding the project on advice from experts...

I know this is all meaning from the Liberals about what they'll do if they get power, but I'm assuming Labor will counter act this in the not too distant future with something similar... Of course, we've been promised things in the past before election time, only to see them never take shape...

So, thoughts? I'm sure you guys will have some decent feedback on this one.

[waz94]

This has been discussed over the last 3 pages, after it was announced last week.

[Waewick]

yeah, like anyone in the state cares what Tom K has to say.

[Aidan]

So i guess we need to ask if the Northern connector is another overkill solution from the same people that brought us the Superway, when it would appear a much improved PWR covers pretty much the same alignment with the same capacity and speed at probably half the cost?

The Northern Connector would be significantly faster and have a much greater capacity. ISTR the decision to build it was made when it was found that it wouldn't be much more expensive - but I don't know how much room for improvement there is over the plans they drew up for PWR.

In hindsight for future referance we really need to look at the spectacular infastructure projects of the last 5 years with a critical mind and ask..
1. Would a shorter duplication of the Southern expressway ie from Woodcroft only, or no dulication at all allow the savings to be better spent on the Darlington grade separations?

No - the southernmost section of the Expressway has greater connectivity benefits, as South Road is a big detour from Noarlunga. But perhaps the middle section should have been delayed in order to grade separate its northern end sooner.

2. Would a simplified Superway ie not one the height of Mt Lofty have allowed grade separation and widening all the way to Port Road?

I doubt it, but if anyone knows how much could have been saved I'd be very interested.

3. Would not extending the Noarlunga line to Seaford have allowed for electrification of all suburban lines?

Even if it was, it wouldn't have been worth it. But a simple upgrade would probably have been better value than a complete rebuild despite the diminished benefits.

4. Lets not even look too closely at what a less extravagant RAH would have allowed in the health department.
These are all legacies of Rann, Foley and co..and only time will tell if we got good value for money.

We've already looked closely about better plans for the RAH. The real question is will the reason we'll be cursing them in 30 years be the money they've wasted? Or will it be the lack of a good site for a new stadium due to the RAH having occupied the best location?

[jase111]

Torrens Road to River Torrens

As part of the South Road planning study detailed concept plans have been developed for the high priority section of South Road between Torrens Road and the River Torrens. Upgrading this section of the corridor will deliver substantial cost benefits for the movement of both light and heavy vehicles, as it addresses delays caused by Port and Grange Roads and the Outer Harbor Rail Line and safety along the narrow section between Torrens Road and Port Road.


This is now on dpti site north south corridor I thought it was Anzac highway to he super way now they are taking small parts of projects this is the first I've seen this section mentioned

[neoballmon]

Torrens Road to River Torrens

As part of the South Road planning study detailed concept plans have been developed for the high priority section of South Road between Torrens Road and the River Torrens. Upgrading this section of the corridor will deliver substantial cost benefits for the movement of both light and heavy vehicles, as it addresses delays caused by Port and Grange Roads and the Outer Harbor Rail Line and safety along the narrow section between Torrens Road and Port Road.


This is now on dpti site north south corridor I thought it was Anzac highway to he super way now they are taking small parts of projects this is the first I've seen this section mentioned

Hopefully this eventuates more than it did in 2005! Great to see widening of the Northern part has been considered too!

[claybro]

It was extremely disappointing to read Tom Koutsantonis' reaction the the Darlington interchange proposal by the Federal opposition today. Just because the current state government was not able to prioritise this area and therefore forgo the federal funding, does not mean it should not be now open for discussion, perhaps find a cheaper solution and alternative means of funding. So Tom states in the article the cost could be $1Billion or even $1.8 Billion. Well given the current administration has gone for the gold plated version of everything in the last 5 years, I am not surprised he has come up with these huge figures. But just maybe a more conservative approach might allow a workable solution to this area, which can also be planned for future improvements in mind.

[Wayno]

It was extremely disappointing to read Tom Koutsantonis' reaction the the Darlington interchange proposal by the Federal opposition today.

No surprise TK said those things. Misdirection at its best.

[ml69]

Torrens Road to River Torrens

As part of the South Road planning study detailed concept plans have been developed for the high priority section of South Road between Torrens Road and the River Torrens. Upgrading this section of the corridor will deliver substantial cost benefits for the movement of both light and heavy vehicles, as it addresses delays caused by Port and Grange Roads and the Outer Harbor Rail Line and safety along the narrow section between Torrens Road and Port Road.


This is now on dpti site north south corridor I thought it was Anzac highway to he super way now they are taking small parts of projects this is the first I've seen this section mentioned

Jase111, can you pls put up a link to the specific webpage on the DPTI website that contain these plans. I couldn't find anything related to this on their website. I didn't think they were publicly available?

[[Shuz]]

Here's the link - halfway down the page you'll find the extract.

http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/south_road_upgrade

I've seen the plans for myself - this is a fairly significant one.

[neoballmon]

This page still mentions the upgrade of the Tonsley line and an interchange built. Maybe this hasn't been scrapped.


Also, Shuz, I understand you probably can't reveal much, but does this Torrens to Torrens project fix Torrens Road, or only up to it?
I assume West Thebarton Road/Ashwin Parade will remain untouched for this project?

[[Shuz]]

I cannot say any more than, I've seen the concept plans and that the scale of the project is fairly significant.