Sensational-Adelaide.com

Anyone know the gradient our trains can climb? Anyone know/guess the gradient of the Flinders Uni hill/climb?

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:59 pm

Algernon wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:53 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:31 pm

Agreed, it needs one more station further south for the university. That said, it's hilly terrain in the area.

It highlights what a frustrating location Flinders is for a University. The only seamless way to get a train right into Flinders is to do it how hilly Euro and North American cities build their metros. Bore a tunnel and terminate at an underground station, then access the underground station via 50-80m long escalator. Very expensive but the only way to do it right. It's already a lot of money spent getting the station 600 metres closer, so it doesn't make sense spending all that money for it to still be 600 metres away from the uni.

This problem is a worldwide phenomena. In the book Human Transit, it mentions how many post-WW2 universities positioned themselves on a hill overlooking the city. This made them feel important, like a medieval castle. It's a huge nightmare for public transport though. There's no easy solution. The universities need their own public transport routes, since they are in a sort of cul-de-sac.

Planning for Flinders predated the development of globe spanning ICBM's, but a useful (but probably accidental) side effect of it's location is that it would have been fairly safe distance from the most likely ICBM targets in Adelaide during the cold war. Post attack, it would have made a very useful centre for government relief & triage efforts. Half buried in a hillside like it is, I always thought the main FMC building looks like a bomb shelter ...

SRW wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:53 am

Nearly makes you wonder if a cable car might have been a more felicitous solution for the extension, like the Portland Aerial Tram. Not advocating, mind you, just curious what options they considered in the planning.

I was thinking about the funicular railways in Pittsburgh in the USA. I suspect Flinders is not steep enough for exactly that solution.

SBD wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:52 am

I was thinking about the funicular railways in Pittsburgh in the USA. I suspect Flinders is not steep enough for exactly that solution.

I think all a funicular railway requires is a constant gradient. It may also require a straight run, but I'm not sure about that. An ABT (Cogged) system for the final part of the trip may also work - it may require a small cogged "loco" to haul the train up the final incline, but then it could detach and the electric train could descend by itself.

rhino wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:58 am

SBD wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:52 am

I was thinking about the funicular railways in Pittsburgh in the USA. I suspect Flinders is not steep enough for exactly that solution.

I think all a funicular railway requires is a constant gradient. It may also require a straight run, but I'm not sure about that. An ABT (Cogged) system for the final part of the trip may also work - it may require a small cogged "loco" to haul the train up the final incline, but then it could detach and the electric train could descend by itself.

Just hauling the existing railcars up the slope has potential rider comfort issues too. It's a while since I have driven up to remember how steep it feels in a car, but on a train, half the passengers are facing the other way. We don't want them or their possessions tipping off their seats into the laps of the people facing them.

how good is he wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:03 am

Anyone know the gradient our trains can climb? Anyone know/guess the gradient of the Flinders Uni hill/climb?

I don't know the figure for a 4000 class EMU, but other networks run EMUs on 1 in 25 grades.

This render popped up on Facebook.

'A reminder that the Flinders Link Project team are holding a community information session THIS Wednesday 3 October from 6:30pm to 8:30pm at the Marion Cultural Centre.

Register before 5pm 2 October by contacting 1300 928 345 or [email protected].'

This new rail line will be a game changer.....allowing thousands of people to access the Flinders Medical Centre and Flinders University by train.

And then some southern suburbs bus routes can be re-routed to Marion Shopping Centre via the new train line, decreasing bus congestion on South Road.

And the Seaford line can be turned into a permanent express (to Woodlands Park) giving southern suburbs commuters far quicker travel times, whilst the

Flinders train line serves the inner city stations 0600-2400 seven days a week.

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

Neither the powers that be or Adelaide commuters have shown any willingness to go down the path of bus/train interchanges. Such interchanges require a train frequency of at least 10 minutes to be worthwhile, and I don't think this spur even has the capacity for such frequency. They haven't even got their heads around integrating Marion S/C and it's bus area to integrate into the new Oaklands station, so I wouldn't be holding out much hope for any connections on this line, as desirable as it may seem.

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

It's my understanding that this station will be integrated with a bus interchange on the surface South road, under the rail bridge (ie where both of the lift towers are in the render above). This should allow for seamless integration with all Main South Rd and Flagstaff Hill Rd buses, which can then continue to Marion or Flinders Uni and save a heap of express bus hours down South Rd and Goodwood Rd.

Westside wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:06 pm

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

It's my understanding that this station will be integrated with a bus interchange on the surface South road, under the rail bridge (ie where both of the lift towers are in the render above). This should allow for seamless integration with all Main South Rd and Flagstaff Hill Rd buses, which can then continue to Marion or Flinders Uni and save a heap of express bus hours down South Rd and Goodwood Rd.

But there is no train station under the rail bridge near surface South Road in the render.......why cant the buses be diverted nearer the proposed Flinders train station to achieve some sort of integration?

PeFe wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:24 pm

Westside wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:06 pm

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

It's my understanding that this station will be integrated with a bus interchange on the surface South road, under the rail bridge (ie where both of the lift towers are in the render above). This should allow for seamless integration with all Main South Rd and Flagstaff Hill Rd buses, which can then continue to Marion or Flinders Uni and save a heap of express bus hours down South Rd and Goodwood Rd.

But there is no train station under the rail bridge near surface South Road in the render.......why cant the buses be diverted nearer the proposed Flinders train station to achieve some sort of integration?

The train station is immediately south of the rail bridge. In the render, it looks at most a 20 metre walk from the end of the train station to the Southbound lift. How much closer do you want it to be??

It also saves the long-winded diversion for the buses, speeding up times to Marion and other destinations down the route.

claybro wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:33 pm

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

Neither the powers that be or Adelaide commuters have shown any willingness to go down the path of bus/train interchanges. Such interchanges require a train frequency of at least 10 minutes to be worthwhile, and I don't think this spur even has the capacity for such frequency. They haven't even got their heads around integrating Marion S/C and it's bus area to integrate into the new Oaklands station, so I wouldn't be holding out much hope for any connections on this line, as desirable as it may seem.

Adelaidians haven't been given the opportunity to try high quality interchanges. It's for the reason you mentioned, lack of frequency. If the powers that be build high quality interchanges, I don't see why Adelaidians wouldn't use it.

If buses terminated at the station rather than the city, they could serve the shorter route at a higher frequency. So users wait a shorter time and arrive at their destination earlier, even though they had to use an interchange.

Have there been any announcements regarding the timetable for this line? There's no point spending all this money on infrastructure if they're not going to run frequent services.

1NEEDS2POST wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:31 pm

claybro wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:33 pm

SRW wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:42 am

Unfortunately, I think potential bus reroutes are a missed opportunity as long as the Medical Centre interchange and the new station are not integrated.

Neither the powers that be or Adelaide commuters have shown any willingness to go down the path of bus/train interchanges. Such interchanges require a train frequency of at least 10 minutes to be worthwhile, and I don't think this spur even has the capacity for such frequency. They haven't even got their heads around integrating Marion S/C and it's bus area to integrate into the new Oaklands station, so I wouldn't be holding out much hope for any connections on this line, as desirable as it may seem.

Adelaidians haven't been given the opportunity to try high quality interchanges. It's for the reason you mentioned, lack of frequency. If the powers that be build high quality interchanges, I don't see why Adelaidians wouldn't use it.

If buses terminated at the station rather than the city, they could serve the shorter route at a higher frequency. So users wait a shorter time and arrive at their destination earlier, even though they had to use an interchange.

Have there been any announcements regarding the timetable for this line? There's no point spending all this money on infrastructure if they're not going to run frequent services.

This is a single spur line, with limited capacity and all trains on this line will stop all stations always. It is inconceivable that commuters would wish to give up their current express bus into the city, for a service that drops them at Flinders station, to walk 20-30 metres to a train platform, to wait potentially up to 20 minutes for the next train, which then stops at every whistle stop into the city, only to arrive at North Terrace-potentially the very opposite end of the CBD they need to be. Bus/ train interchanges are a great way of combining resources, and getting buses off the inner city arterials, if they are combined with high frequency, relatively high speed commuter trains. This line is not the one to do it.