[COM] South Road Superway | $842m | 3km

[Will409]

And I guess freight trains are fueled by pixie dust?

One thing that should be remembered is that a 'unit' (if you will) of fuel hauls a greater amount of load on a freight train that it does by truck. Part of that is attributed to the fact that the rolling resistance of a steel wheel on a steel rail is far less then that then a rubber tyre on ashphalt. To put it into perspective, try and hunt down trains MP9/PM9 which is the SCT service from Melbourne to Perth and runs 5 return services a week. They aren't hard to miss since the locos and rollingstock are all painted white. See how long they are (north of Adelaide, they average 75-80 wagons and weigh around 5500tonnes) and then think about the amount of trucks they take off the road.

[Wayno]

And I guess freight trains are fueled by pixie dust?

One thing that should be remembered is that a 'unit' (if you will) of fuel hauls a greater amount of load on a freight train that it does by truck. Part of that is attributed to the fact that the rolling resistance of a steel wheel on a steel rail is far less then that then a rubber tyre on ashphalt. To put it into perspective, try and hunt down trains MP9/PM9 which is the SCT service from Melbourne to Perth and runs 5 return services a week. They aren't hard to miss since the locos and rollingstock are all painted white. See how long they are (north of Adelaide, they average 75-80 wagons and weigh around 5500tonnes) and then think about the amount of trucks they take off the road.

Can a train deliver freight direct to my front door in a timely manner? sorry, just being sarcastic - but obviously long distance is a no-brainer for use of trains. What about short distances? surely we need a major arterial rd (like south rd) to be brought up to date? no brainer as well?

[Cruise]

and a rubber wheel on bitumen gives you better accrelation and breaking ability.

[Will409]

Can they deliver freight to my front door in a timely manner?

Given a fast transfer at a place like Islington Freight Terminal to a local truck or you are lucky enough to have your own private siding. Localised rail freight between a supply point and a finishing point within the suburbs can work IF there is a high enough volume to justify it, especially if there are private connections.

Trucks however do have a part to play delivering goods from a local supply point to a local delivery point if:

1 - No rail connection is possible
2 -Traffic levels aren't high enough to justify rail (the main issue)

Either the above or between a local supply point and a multi modal terminal like the Adelaide Freight Terminal at Islington. There is no denying that roads like South Road should be upgraded to suit trucking operators if rail isn't suitable. The real beef I have though is for long haul trucking routes between capital cities but that is another issue altogether.

[Wayno]

Can they deliver freight to my front door in a timely manner?

Given a fast transfer at a place like Islington Freight Terminal to a local truck or you are lucky enough to have your own private siding. Localised rail freight between a supply point and a finishing point within the suburbs can work IF there is a high enough volume to justify it, especially if there are private connections.

Trucks however do have a part to play delivering goods from a local supply point to a local delivery point if:

1 - No rail connection is possible
2 -Traffic levels aren't high enough to justify rail (the main issue)

Either the above or between a local supply point and a multi modal terminal like the Adelaide Freight Terminal at Islington. There is no denying that roads like South Road should be upgraded to suit trucking operators if rail isn't suitable. The real beef I have though is for long haul trucking routes between capital cities but that is another issue altogether.

agree with everything above - we both are chewing the same beef

[Cruise]

Does it taste like chicken?

[Omicron]

I have said it before, I will say it again.
If the government spent money to slow and then reverse growth in road freight, putting it on rails, and offered better public transport in the form of heavy rail to more places, it would not have to spend all this money on South Road at all.
And while you're on the subject of short-term pain for long-term gain, what about peak oil? What about Global Warming and Kyoto? What about the costs of upkeep- roads with such heavy use will need regular and frequent repairs, while in the long term, rail is probably the cheaper option afterall!

That depends on many things - from where is road freight coming? Where is it going? What is the most cost-effective route? What is the most cost-effective method? How much money must be spent on a heavy-rail route that mirrors the most heavily-patronised route from north to south? Is rail-freight more cost-effective over an extended period of time than road freight? How much time (and carbon emissions) shall be wasted by drivers waiting for increased rail freight traffic to pass by suburban rail crossings? Shall increased rail freight improve fuel economy as a result of decreased road traffic? To what extent shall increased rail freight decrease road freight? If the usage of existing rail corridors rises due to increased freight, to what extent will passenger facilities be affected?

Incidentally, the Kyoto Agreement that we have signed allows for an increase in emissions of 8% over 1990 levels. Our aim is to increase? Lovely.

[Professor]

I fully support the train volume increase and having more focus on the use of public transport. Let's get serious about getting people off the highways and onto crowded trains, skinny trams and late buses.

Think of the environment before you drive a car anywhere and try to work out "is this trip really necessary". Greenhouse gas emmissions are deadly and God only knows where all those black baloons will end up.

Could people just stay at home in their lonely bedrooms and contribute to the greater good by keep yet another car off the road? And the price of fuel means that you would save significant money and have more to spend on cigarettes, alcopops and beer.

If everyone did their bit for clearing the Adelaide roads, they would not be so congested and I could drive my red turbo in peace.

PS Any photos of the underpass / roadwork? Will be great when this project is finished.

[cleverick]

The main issue is obviously long-distance freight, from Adelaide-Melbourne (Messrs Fox and Scott have got that well and truly nailed, my vision is to topple them )
While road freight runs on publically-funded roads, rail operators usually have to supply their own routes. This is a gross and unjustified subsidy to road freight, and if seen from this "whole cost" perspective, I think we can agree that rail is cheaper over a longer time span.
Considering the 'unit' cost of fuel, if a Carbon tax is applied, rail would be even more attractive.
Of course trucks have a part to play. But let's consider the difference between a B-double which travels up and down South Road (making up some huge percentage of traffic along that route) and a smaller van used to run goods from a warehouse depot to the retail outlet or customer direct.
With automated docks and warehouses, transfer from rail to truck or rail to ship (and vice-versa) is cheap and efficient. The possibility of shipping Adelaide's goods via Darwin should be explored more (all wool presently leaves from Melbourne, but might be better to have second base in Darwin?) Rail freight would increase, but would not affect suburban lines because of an increase in capacity of the routes, better time-tabling and potentially dedicated routes. Road traffic would not be hampered because over- and underpasses would be built on all major roads, while minor roads would be cut off, as in Goodwood presently.

A final point: we negotiated pretty well at Kyoto, and still didn't agree to it in the end. If that's not bad faith, I don't know what is. As it is, the opposition was carrying on a while ago that we might be impugned with massive fines for not making our target, because now that we've signed, we might go ahead an increase emissions by 9%. Perhaps time to think about reducing some of the distance-related CO2 emissions (like trucks on the road) which were our main argument to be allowed an increase over 1990 levels.

[Pistol]

Is everyone else studying Integrated Logistics Management as well?

[monotonehell]

Is everyone else studying Integrated Logistics Management as well?

Hasn't everyone?

[Omicron]

Is everyone else studying Integrated Logistics Management as well?

I integrate logistics managers in my sleep!

[Pistol]

You and I should catch up then...

[Norman]

Got this in the Inbox today regarding the Glenelg Overpass:

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the South Road Upgrade - Glenelg Tram Overpass Project.

Hi Norman

Thanks for your enquiry.

As you are no doubt aware, feedback on the preliminary concept has been sought by the community over the past few weeks. Feedback received by the community and key stakeholders via feedback forms, community meetings and from the Commuity Open Day on 24th May are currently being collated and the outcomes of the latest stage of community consultation will be included on the project website later this month.

Sometime in the next month or so, the Department for Transport, Energy and Infrastructure will lodge an application with the Development Assessment Commission (DAC) to build the overpass. DAC will then run an independent consultation process, seeking community comment on the proposed design of the overpass. Once DAC has considered community comment and reviewed the propsed design it will decide if the project is approved for construction. Approval may be given with our without conditions.

The Government is currently putting together a \'detailed design and construction contract\' which, if it receives DAC approval, will put out for tender, seeking a suitable consortium to finalise the design and build the tram overpass. Once the consortium is appointed and the detailed design is underway later this year, the community will receive further information.

I hope this has answered your enquiry.

Regards
Kath Moore
on behalf of the
Glenelg Tram Overpass Project Team

[Omicron]

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