Broad questions about Adelaide's CBD

[Phantom]

Mind my ignorance here but there are a few things I don't quite understand about Adelaide, being only 22 and not really having lived through these changes. I have to ask, why was it that Rundle St up to Pulteney St became a pedestrian only mall in 1976, but they never decided to do the same with Hindley St, up to Morphett St?

I mean, I kinda figured that during the mid 70's that they both had about the same types of business and retail? Was it in the plans for Hindley to also become a pedestrian only mall? What about a couple of years back when they closed it off to cars on Saturday nights?

What would be the benefits and downfalls, should this happen? Is it likely that I'll see something like this in my lifetime?

I'll variously add to this thread with more questions when they come back into my head, but I do have quite a few. (ie. If Adelaide can only have buildings under 500ft high, {due to the flight plans and such} why don't they realign the runway so the planes come in at a different angle that doesn't effect the city height limit?)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can point me in the right direction!

[monotonehell]

I can answer the airport related question. Not sure about the other as there were department stores all across Adelaide.

Runways are subject to prevailing winds. The runway is oriented toward the median wind directions, but winds can blow from all around the compass. Planes approach the airport from quite a wide angle to the end of the runway, depending on where the crosswind is at the time. The approach can be completely reversed (either from the west or east) again depending on the wind direction. So their approach has very little to do with building heights.

In fact planes themselves aren't the majority of the reason for the building height restrictions. It's more to do with the radar and other guidance signals and how they can be interfered with by tall structures.

We did a submission a while ago regarding this, it's a good read that will answer a lot of questions you have, and probably some you didn't know you have.

Get the pdf here: http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... 130#p59130

[Phantom]

Awesome link, Mono! I found myself reading that and re-reading that, and it indeed did bring up another question that gets asked by the proposal!

"Is it interesting to note that while taller buildings are being established in the west, true scope for taller buildings sits in the east. As this area is further from the airport and hence less impacted by aviation constraints."

I cannot describe how accurately this sums it all up for me!

Was there a larger response from Weatherill and co, or was it just that one letter mentioning that it would all be addressed in his "Vibrant Adelaide" plan?

I would absolutely love to see a render of Adelaide, showing what it could look like if giants like the Observation Tower mentioned in the proposal and the 123m building on Pirie St were actually completed, rather than being cancelled!

But yeah, the original question still remains! Why was Hindley St never converted into something similar to Rundle Mall?

[rev]

About the only thing I agree with shuz on, is the airport being in the wrong location.

[Shahkar]

About the only thing I agree with shuz on, is the airport being in the wrong location.

A lot of us can agree about that.

[Phantom]

Would Parafield make for a better location?

[Aidan]

But yeah, the original question still remains! Why was Hindley St never converted into something similar to Rundle Mall?

Hindley Street was never dominated by retail. It did have one department store near the King William Street end, but the main focus was entertainment. After efforts to improve Hindley Street's formerly rather sleazy image there's more of a focus on restaurants, but still no sensible reason to pedestrianize it.

[Ho Really]

Would Parafield make for a better location?

No. Very restrictive. And finding another location close to Adelaide has become virtually impossible.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Regarding malls. Rundle Street East would be more suitable than Hindley Street. As Aidan said, only one major retail store was down there: Miller Andersons. Now long gone.

Cheers

[Vee]

Regarding malls. Rundle Street East would be more suitable than Hindley Street. As Aidan said, only one major retail store was down there: Miller Andersons. Now long gone.

Ah, the Department Stores of Adelaide.
At their peak, they were spread about the CBD before consolidation, closures/demolition and or redevelopment, re-location saw those remaining...
(main department stores of Myer, David Jones and Harris Scarfe)
... centralized in Rundle Mall.

Here's some information and a selection of photos from various web sources on Department Stores of Adelaide. Some older forum members will have memories and stories about a few of these, no longer in existence and or re-developed, but all will need to rely on historians to find out 'the way we where' for those long gone.

* Moore's on the Square - (Victoria Square)
The grand, Paris-inspired Charles Moore department store, with its elegant 50 step marble staircase, was in Victoria Square before it was closed and re-purposed as the Sir Samuel Way Court building.
http://www.samemory.sa.gov.au/site/page ... 440&c=1195

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuckwelldk/8190774912/
-The 1948 fire.
http://www.sahistorians.org.au/175/chro ... fire.shtml

-Sir Samuel Way building (and inclusion of the dome)
http://paulscottinfo.ipage.com/historic ... l-way.html

*Peoplestores in Gouger Street.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuckwelldk/8195014571/

*Cox Foys (previously Foy & Gibson) in Rundle St
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuckwelldk/8182560389/

*Miller Anderson in Hindley St (est in 1839 - SA's oldest Department Store) - now apartments.
http://www.millerapartments.com.au/adel ... story.html

*Charles Birks Department Store, Rundle St, previously Hindley St (no photo avail)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuckwelldk/8163945927/

*Craven's Department Store Rundle/Pulteney St
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tuckwelldk/8168956793/

*John Martins, or Johnnies as many in this forum will remember, in Rundle Mall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Martin_%26_Co.

Three remain.
*Harris Scarfe, est in 1849, Rundle Mall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_Scarfe

*Myer in Rundle Mall
http://www.myer.com.au/learn-about-us/a ... -1930.html

*David Jones in Rundle Mall
http://deejsounds.wordpress.com/2013/06 ... s-history/

Thanks to the David Tuckwell photo collection on Flickr for many of the historic photos and context and historians for preserving records and stories surrounding our heritage.

I'm glad that Charles Moore's department store has survived and lives on as a re-purposed government building (law courts), making a huge contribution to the elegant side of Victoria Square.

[rev]

Would Parafield make for a better location?

No. Very restrictive. And finding another location close to Adelaide has become virtually impossible.

Cheers

The best location for an airport now would be north of the suburbs, out Two-Wells way. Upgrade Port Wakefield Road from the Northern Expressway/planned Northern Connector, build a nice LA style interchange, and bam, industry also gets a better connection to the airport without traffic burdens.
But the biggest reasons it wont happen is 1) there's no political will or intention, 2) cost.

But anyway this is off the topic of the CBD.

[monotonehell]

Would Parafield make for a better location?

No. Very restrictive. And finding another location close to Adelaide has become virtually impossible.

Cheers

The best location for an airport now would be north of the suburbs, out Two-Wells way. Upgrade Port Wakefield Road from the Northern Expressway/planned Northern Connector, build a nice LA style interchange, and bam, industry also gets a better connection to the airport without traffic burdens.
But the biggest reasons it wont happen is 1) there's no political will or intention, 2) cost.

But anyway this is off the topic of the CBD.

Not such a good location as it would be very remote to the homes and industry of the South. The current location is good that it is approximately central to Greater Adelaide.

[Norman]

The best location for an airport now would be north of the suburbs, out Two-Wells way. Upgrade Port Wakefield Road from the Northern Expressway/planned Northern Connector, build a nice LA style interchange, and bam, industry also gets a better connection to the airport without traffic burdens.
But the biggest reasons it wont happen is 1) there's no political will or intention, 2) cost.

But anyway this is off the topic of the CBD.

Not such a good location as it would be very remote to the homes and industry of the South. The current location is good that it is approximately central to Greater Adelaide.

Why are we complaining about the current location? The only things it restricts are the departure and arrival times, and the building heights. Building heights won't matter as the demand for a massively tall building just won't be there for a few decades, and we still have so much free slots at the current airport that we don't have the trouble Sydney Airport has.

[Phantom]

Ah, k. Cheers for the heads up about Parafield.

But yeah, those pics you posted Vee are awesome! It's a pity so much of that almost New York style of architecture is now just about non-existant in the CBD. I also heard somewhere else (just from a friend, I think), that the building heights are caused as an effect of the soil that the city is built on?

I really do get that nostalgic feeling when I go into the Myer Centre and look up and see where Dazzeland was, when I think of the Magic Cave in John Martin's (I found some of those old sticker sheets of theirs last year), seeing the Kangaroo Creek Gang on my old school saver documents with the State Bank, the underground food shop that was built into where Woolworth's currently is (I think the shop was originally called Venture, yeah?). Ah, the joys of growing up during the mid to late 90s!

As much as South Australia went into a recession in the 90s, I can't help but feel that era was one of the best to have lived through... Hell, all of this for me is summed up by Nigel Mansell's blowout on Dequetteville Terrace in 1986. Adelaide held the final round of the F1 Championship for 11 years! How cool is that?!

[mgb]

On the subject of old department stores maybe someone can shed some light on a vague memory I have.
I seem to recall there was a large department store that used to be where the city beach and adjacent carpark are now located. It was burnt out or something and remained empty for a long time before finally being removed for what we see today.

This memory must be from around the early 80's, but then maybe I am getting locations confused. As a kid I didn't come into the city often, but the memory just stuck. I think it was due to the way the building was left as a shell, with the basement viewable from ground level. Anyway, would be great to know what used to be on the corner of Frome & Pirie Streets where city beach is now if anyone has any idea?


mgb