[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[SBD]

re-post from the North-South Motorway discussion:

Short South also looks like a cost-effective "solution" to providing an alternate road route between Mount Barker and the Adelaide Plains. I wonder if the corridor could be wide enough (and shallow enough grades) to provide commuter rail as well if the urban planning people still want to make Mt Barker a residential suburb rather than a separate city.

Short South would be a great idea to get the ARTC main line out of the way, but using it for commuter rail would bypass the inner hills where commuter rail is sorely needed.

Re-posting an old map with a few updates. Ideally, keeping commuter trains on the current line with realignment to follow the Freeway (and maybe follow Brown Hill Creek to speed things up) will keep as many destinations as possible on the route and allow through-running beyond Mount Barker if needed.

Hills Rail Plan1.1.png

The route would not really get the ARTC line out of the way because it still enters the suburbs on the southern side. I had been thinking a new line would join the Seaford line, rather than at Eden Hills. Do you have estimates of ruling grades for any of those options and what tunnels and bridges would be needed?

Short South commuter rail might provide a time-competitive alternative against buses for commuting from Mount Barker to urban destinations. The current rail route cannot do that because the freeway follows a much more direct route. That doesn't necessarily prevent the current Belair route continuing as well, or maybe even being extended back to Mount Lofty, Aldgate and Bridgewater as it did until about 1987. They would also be likely to be slower than the bus, but not by as much.

The current corridor only has one track past Belair (apart from in the station yards) so quite possibly would not be able to sustain a high frequency service though if a separate Metro track can't be fitted net to the ARTC track. From memory it would be fairly difficult to add a second track between Belair and Mount Lofty (Stirling) and through Aldgate.

[ChillyPhilly]

The only good part of GlobeLink was rerouting rail freight on a new corridor east of the Adelaide Hills, rounding Truro and coming into Adelaide that way.

This would be most ideal, because then rail freight can follow the (as yet unconstructed) Northern Connector corridor and go no further than the yard at Kilburn. It would also ensure that freight can always be double-stacked for efficiency, which is not currently possible due to bridge and tunnel clearances along the Belair line corridor.

[PD2/20]

The only good part of GlobeLink was rerouting rail freight on a new corridor east of the Adelaide Hills, rounding Truro and coming into Adelaide that way.

This would be most ideal, because then rail freight can follow the (as yet unconstructed) Northern Connector corridor and go no further than the yard at Kilburn. It would also ensure that freight can always be double-stacked for efficiency, which is not currently possible due to bridge and tunnel clearances along the Belair line corridor.

The restrictions on double stacking are not just in the Adelaide Hills but throughout Victoria and and much of NSW. Double stacking in NSW only permitted Parkes-Broken Hill.

[ChillyPhilly]

The only good part of GlobeLink was rerouting rail freight on a new corridor east of the Adelaide Hills, rounding Truro and coming into Adelaide that way.

This would be most ideal, because then rail freight can follow the (as yet unconstructed) Northern Connector corridor and go no further than the yard at Kilburn. It would also ensure that freight can always be double-stacked for efficiency, which is not currently possible due to bridge and tunnel clearances along the Belair line corridor.

The restrictions on double stacking are not just in the Adelaide Hills but throughout Victoria and and much of NSW. Double stacking in NSW only permitted Parkes-Broken Hill.

Noted - at least if we remove our own barriers to double-stacking, we've more than held up our end of the bargain.

[SRW]

The only good part of GlobeLink was rerouting rail freight on a new corridor east of the Adelaide Hills, rounding Truro and coming into Adelaide that way.

This would be most ideal, because then rail freight can follow the (as yet unconstructed) Northern Connector corridor and go no further than the yard at Kilburn. It would also ensure that freight can always be double-stacked for efficiency, which is not currently possible due to bridge and tunnel clearances along the Belair line corridor.

The commentary I remember from the time is that Short South is a more strategic rail freight option as it would remove the time disadvantage of the Belair stretch while avoiding GlobeLink's perverse disincentive to fully bypass Adelaide (argument being why double back if no longer through-routing).

[RetroGamer87]

The only good part of GlobeLink was rerouting rail freight on a new corridor east of the Adelaide Hills, rounding Truro and coming into Adelaide that way.

This would be most ideal, because then rail freight can follow the (as yet unconstructed) Northern Connector corridor and go no further than the yard at Kilburn. It would also ensure that freight can always be double-stacked for efficiency, which is not currently possible due to bridge and tunnel clearances along the Belair line corridor.

The commentary I remember from the time is that Short South is a more strategic rail freight option as it would remove the time disadvantage of the Belair stretch while avoiding GlobeLink's perverse disincentive to fully bypass Adelaide (argument being why double back if no longer through-routing).

Ok but why do we want Melbourne to Darwin freight going through Adelaide anyway?

[rhino]

Ok but why do we want Melbourne to Darwin freight going through Adelaide anyway?

It's not so much about the Melbourne-Darwin traffic.
Freight these days is generally a just-in-time affair. The days of warehousing are gone, for most businesses. This means quick transport is good transport. If rail traffic does not go through Adelaide, and the Adelaide freight yard at Regency Park becomes a dead-end yard accessed from the north rather than a through yard, a lot of Adelaide's rail freight will be lost to road. Next thing you know, the numbers of trucks, B-Doubles, triples, on the highways into Adelaide will explode, and we'll be complaining about that.
Rail is already slower due to the double-handling involved, but if it's forced to be even slower, shippers will move to road transport, which is less environmentally friendly as well as being more dangerous for other road users.

[SRW]

Ok but why do we want Melbourne to Darwin freight going through Adelaide anyway?

It's not so much about the Melbourne-Darwin traffic.
Freight these days is generally a just-in-time affair. The days of warehousing are gone, for most businesses. This means quick transport is good transport. If rail traffic does not go through Adelaide, and the Adelaide freight yard at Regency Park becomes a dead-end yard accessed from the north rather than a through yard, a lot of Adelaide's rail freight will be lost to road. Next thing you know, the numbers of trucks, B-Doubles, triples, on the highways into Adelaide will explode, and we'll be complaining about that.
Rail is already slower due to the double-handling involved, but if it's forced to be even slower, shippers will move to road transport, which is less environmentally friendly as well as being more dangerous for other road users.

100%

Also, ensuring rail viability means more freight competition and lower costs.

[SBD]

Ok but why do we want Melbourne to Darwin freight going through Adelaide anyway?

It's not so much about the Melbourne-Darwin traffic.
Freight these days is generally a just-in-time affair. The days of warehousing are gone, for most businesses. This means quick transport is good transport. If rail traffic does not go through Adelaide, and the Adelaide freight yard at Regency Park becomes a dead-end yard accessed from the north rather than a through yard, a lot of Adelaide's rail freight will be lost to road. Next thing you know, the numbers of trucks, B-Doubles, triples, on the highways into Adelaide will explode, and we'll be complaining about that.
Rail is already slower due to the double-handling involved, but if it's forced to be even slower, shippers will move to road transport, which is less environmentally friendly as well as being more dangerous for other road users.

100%

Also, ensuring rail viability means more freight competition and lower costs.

If the Globelink bypass was built, what would be the closest points on the through route between Melbourne and Crystal Brook (the next ARTC junction) to Adelaide? Monarto would be one option, and trucks from there would be coming down the South Eastern Freeway with all the concerns that implies.

Was Penfield going to be on the through route, or only on the Adelaide north stub? Bowmans is the next current freight terminal. Presumably someone would build an intermodal terminal on the through line near the junction, as there would likely still be a spur to Penfield, Dry Creek, Regency Park, Port Adelaide, Osborne and Outer Harbor. It would be interesting to see whether freight was immediately moved to trucks, or to a short-haul rail operation servicing those terminals (and any industrial sidings that might still be used?)

[Spotto]

Was Penfield going to be on the through route, or only on the Adelaide north stub? Bowmans is the next current freight terminal. Presumably someone would build an intermodal terminal on the through line near the junction, as there would likely still be a spur to Penfield, Dry Creek, Regency Park, Port Adelaide, Osborne and Outer Harbor. It would be interesting to see whether freight was immediately moved to trucks, or to a short-haul rail operation servicing those terminals (and any industrial sidings that might still be used?)

Devil’s advocate for a second, but why move something from a long-haul train to a short-haul train then to a truck when you can cut out the middle man and go straight from long-haul train to truck? Cheaper and easier.

[SBD]

Was Penfield going to be on the through route, or only on the Adelaide north stub? Bowmans is the next current freight terminal. Presumably someone would build an intermodal terminal on the through line near the junction, as there would likely still be a spur to Penfield, Dry Creek, Regency Park, Port Adelaide, Osborne and Outer Harbor. It would be interesting to see whether freight was immediately moved to trucks, or to a short-haul rail operation servicing those terminals (and any industrial sidings that might still be used?)

Why move something from a long-haul train to a short-haul train then to a truck when you can cut out the middle man and go straight from long-haul train to truck? Cheaper and easier.

Most of the freight destined for or coming from Outer Harbor or Port Adelaide would not have a truck as the next step, it would have a ship. If there are still any industrial sidings, they would also be served by forklift not semi-trailer.

The more practical question is how much freight travels in less-than-train lots that would need re-sorting rather than through to those destinations.

[rhino]

Most of the freight destined for or coming from Outer Harbor or Port Adelaide would not have a truck as the next step, it would have a ship. If there are still any industrial sidings, they would also be served by forklift not semi-trailer.

I think it's rather unlikely that freight arriving from Melbourne, Sydney, Darwin or Perth would be heading for Port Adelaide or Outer Harbor to be transferred to a ship. They are all bigger ports than Adelaide.
Similarly, it's unlikely that cargo arriving in Adelaide by ship would be railed to these other ports, with the possible exception of Darwin.
Most end-users of freight services are not located next to our ever-shrinking number of rail lines - trucking is required for the first and/or last leg, and will be for the foreseeable future.

[SBD]

Most of the freight destined for or coming from Outer Harbor or Port Adelaide would not have a truck as the next step, it would have a ship. If there are still any industrial sidings, they would also be served by forklift not semi-trailer.

I think it's rather unlikely that freight arriving from Melbourne, Sydney, Darwin or Perth would be heading for Port Adelaide or Outer Harbor to be transferred to a ship. They are all bigger ports than Adelaide.
Similarly, it's unlikely that cargo arriving in Adelaide by ship would be railed to these other ports, with the possible exception of Darwin.
Most end-users of freight services are not located next to our ever-shrinking number of rail lines - trucking is required for the first and/or last leg, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Honest but ignorant question - why is there a railway line into the container terminal at Outer Harbor? As far as I know, there are no container facilities on the SA rail network outside of the metro area. Container loads of wine from the warehouse at Penfield can't justify a train. Is copper or gold ore/concentrate exported in containers from somewhere near a railway line?

There is rail into the grain terminal too. Is grain still moved by rail from Mallala, Crystal Brook, Tailem Bend and Keith? I think they might be the only remaining grain sites on the standard gauge network.

[claybro]

Most of the freight destined for or coming from Outer Harbor or Port Adelaide would not have a truck as the next step, it would have a ship. If there are still any industrial sidings, they would also be served by forklift not semi-trailer.

I think it's rather unlikely that freight arriving from Melbourne, Sydney, Darwin or Perth would be heading for Port Adelaide or Outer Harbor to be transferred to a ship. They are all bigger ports than Adelaide.
Similarly, it's unlikely that cargo arriving in Adelaide by ship would be railed to these other ports, with the possible exception of Darwin.
Most end-users of freight services are not located next to our ever-shrinking number of rail lines - trucking is required for the first and/or last leg, and will be for the foreseeable future.

During a dockers strike at Fremantle last year, multiple ships stranded offshore in WA were diverted to Adelaide to be unloaded, and then have imports trained to Perth. Ironically at the same time-flood waters wiped out a section of the east/west rail line. Caused a freight logisitcs nightmare in Perth for weeks, just when we were recovering from border closures. The resulting flood of trucks from over east, clogged up the approach to Perth, for weeks on end. It goes to show, that rail infrastructure is vital not only for freight-but defense. Rail to port should be considered critical infrastructure-not some logisitical just in case afterthought.

[SouthAussie94]

Most of the freight destined for or coming from Outer Harbor or Port Adelaide would not have a truck as the next step, it would have a ship. If there are still any industrial sidings, they would also be served by forklift not semi-trailer.

I think it's rather unlikely that freight arriving from Melbourne, Sydney, Darwin or Perth would be heading for Port Adelaide or Outer Harbor to be transferred to a ship. They are all bigger ports than Adelaide.
Similarly, it's unlikely that cargo arriving in Adelaide by ship would be railed to these other ports, with the possible exception of Darwin.
Most end-users of freight services are not located next to our ever-shrinking number of rail lines - trucking is required for the first and/or last leg, and will be for the foreseeable future.

Honest but ignorant question - why is there a railway line into the container terminal at Outer Harbor? As far as I know, there are no container facilities on the SA rail network outside of the metro area. Container loads of wine from the warehouse at Penfield can't justify a train. Is copper or gold ore/concentrate exported in containers from somewhere near a railway line?

There is rail into the grain terminal too. Is grain still moved by rail from Mallala, Crystal Brook, Tailem Bend and Keith? I think they might be the only remaining grain sites on the standard gauge network.

I believe the Snowtown silos still have a rail connection