[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[VLtom]

Mt Barker council backs calls for Hills passenger rail with own planning report
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 48e8b22e08

Aren't there single track tunnels between Belair and Mount Barker? That would be more than $10 million to upgrade to double track.

I think that specific paragraph referred to the connection between Mt Barker Junction and Mt Barker station, unused for many years. They'd probably need to pull the entire track along that section and relay it from the ground up (and gauge convert while they're at it).

What's probably more complex about that is the requirement to move steamranger's turntable. You couldn't easily convert it to dual gauge and I cannot think of any convenient spots to put it off the top of my head, I imagine further up their mainline but space will still be a limited.

Another thing I have to add to the thread is that I took the Overland to Melbourne this past week (a great service) and it took an hour flat from Keswick Terminal to Mount Barker Junction. NR 21 and it's 7 carriages didn't make one stop, but I think anyone who thinks the existing alignment is any use for a commuter service is dead wrong.

[SBD]

In the last few days I have heard discussion on the radio about development around Mount Barker and the need for improved infrastructure and services.

I have no doubt about the need for services to be improved, but I thought I had heard the same people making what to me are conflicting comments:

• Mount Barker is a separate city, not just an extension of Adelaide
• Mount Barker needs increased commuter capacity to "the CBD"

If Mount Barker is a separate city, then what is needed to connect it to Adelaide is inter-city transport, not commuter transport. "The CBD" would be the main street of Mount Barker. The same kinds of increased services as are needed between Adelaide and Murray Bridge, Mount Gambier, Port Pirie etc.

[Spotto]

If Mount Barker is a separate city, then what is needed to connect it to Adelaide is inter-city transport, not commuter transport. "The CBD" would be the main street of Mount Barker. The same kinds of increased services as are needed between Adelaide and Murray Bridge, Mount Gambier, Port Pirie etc.

Mount Barker is not a separate city. It’s more like Gawler as a far-fringe outer town which is kind of and kind of not part of the suburbs.

It’s a bit more isolated due to the hills, but if Mount Barker was its own city then there’d be less people communing via the SEF into the “foreign” Adelaide CBD for work and they’d be working in “their own city”.

But, the larger spacing between population centres along the route would kind of make make it a kind of hybrid intercity transport along those sections.

[Waewick]

I didn't see in that article how long the trip would take.

Surely that is the make or break number?

[1NEEDS2POST]

In the last few days I have heard discussion on the radio about development around Mount Barker and the need for improved infrastructure and services.

I have no doubt about the need for services to be improved, but I thought I had heard the same people making what to me are conflicting comments:

• Mount Barker is a separate city, not just an extension of Adelaide
• Mount Barker needs increased commuter capacity to "the CBD"

If Mount Barker is a separate city, then what is needed to connect it to Adelaide is inter-city transport, not commuter transport. "The CBD" would be the main street of Mount Barker. The same kinds of increased services as are needed between Adelaide and Murray Bridge, Mount Gambier, Port Pirie etc.

Mount Barker needs jobs for it to be a separate city.

[SBD]

In the last few days I have heard discussion on the radio about development around Mount Barker and the need for improved infrastructure and services.

I have no doubt about the need for services to be improved, but I thought I had heard the same people making what to me are conflicting comments:

• Mount Barker is a separate city, not just an extension of Adelaide
• Mount Barker needs increased commuter capacity to "the CBD"

If Mount Barker is a separate city, then what is needed to connect it to Adelaide is inter-city transport, not commuter transport. "The CBD" would be the main street of Mount Barker. The same kinds of increased services as are needed between Adelaide and Murray Bridge, Mount Gambier, Port Pirie etc.

Mount Barker needs jobs for it to be a separate city.

Yes it does. Jobs need employers. I wonder how many full-time equivalent jobs are provided by Harvey Norman compared to how many there were at Jacobs' abattoir. Farms need a lot less employees than they used to, so rural towns need to move to more urban employment. There are more and larger schools and shops, but do those kinds of employers replace the farming and farm services employment? It had a flour mill too, but that closed over 100 years ago. Littlehampton Bricks appears to still be an "old style" employer in the area. Presumably to be a "real city" Mount Barker would need a university campus of its own.

Port Lincoln has/had tuna, Mount Gambier has timber, Whyalla and Port Pirie have smelters, Port Augusta had railways. Mount Barker seems to have given up its unique identity, but now wants to be not just part of Adelaide. I went through it yesterday and saw housing estates with signs about "country living" at the entrances, but the suburban housing estates were denser than the outer suburb I live in now! Not the kind of country town I grew up in. Schools, retail, health, aged care and hospitality employ a lot of people. I have no idea how much more is needed to sustain a "modern city" beyond the services for its own citizens. I think it might be the mind-set that says they live in their own city, instead of thinking they have to commute to Adelaide for "real jobs".

[PeFe]

Infrastructure SA has rejected the Mt Barker train proposal.

From In Daily

Infrastructure SA report rejects Hills train solution

A report from Infrastructure SA investigating the best public transport options to free up congestion on the South Eastern Freeway has rejected the prospect of opening a train service on the existing rail corridor, arguing it would “not come close” to buses and cars on reliability and travel time.

The study – commissioned by the State Government to investigate transport solutions to manage the burgeoning population in Mount Barker – instead recommends improving local bus services, increasing Park n Ride capacity, improving “freeway reliability” and bringing forward the completion of the Heysen Boulevard in Mount Barker as better alternatives.

The report also recommends improved efficiency and bus prioritisation on Glen Osmond Road to solve the ongoing traffic problem.

On a potential rail solution, Infrastructure SA said the study “finds that any service on the existing rail corridor would not come close to matching buses and cars on travel time or reliability due to the steep and winding single track limiting speed and any express services”.

“Infrastructure SA’s preferred option is to improve bus services and freeway reliability which will benefit current and future bus patrons as well as other freeway users,” the statement continued.

The study assesses 48 different public transport configurations and recommends a study to identify the right long-term solution for the transport corridor.

“With an efficient corridor, a Hills BRT (bus rapid transit) service, similar to the O-Bahn in Adelaide’s north east, could reduce travel time from Mount Barker to under 40 minutes,” said Infrastructure SA chief executive Jeremy Conway.

Hills MP and Independent Dan Cregan immediately rejected the report’s findings about the rail line.

“The Hills community expects the government to Act on this report and invest in Bus Rapid Transport and rail solutions, including more local park and ride facilities,” Cregan said in a statement.

“I reject the finding that rail is not viable. An alternative study has found modern railcars with higher power-to-weight ratios can do the trip to Mount Barker in as little as 45 minutes with $70M in track improvements.

“The government walked away from Globelink and I don’t want them walking away from this latest study, too.”

https://indaily.com.au/news/2022/01/31/ ... EAD%20MORE

[omada]

I am surprised this hasn't drawn more comment from the learned members .. opinions? I think its a shame the plan has been kyboshed. One would hope it hasn't fallen victim to politics (the libs have never been overly keen on PT).

On the other hand , our discussions have indicated the line ball " business case" for the use of the old line.

But what other options for dedicated rail do we have ? Are infrastructure SA offering anything tangible ? They appear to think that buses on the freeway are the answer.

[[Shuz]]

Well certainly dedicated buses on the freeway is going to be faster and a hell of a lot cheaper to implement than building a new railway line. Of course I'd love to see a railway line to Mount Barker, but the practical reality it's far from economical and the most economical option would be to implement a dedicated busway style system in place instead. Not an O-Bahn, but a simple roadway that is reserved exclusively for buses, with more frequent stopping patterns than the O-Bahn, but with dedicated inverts at stops to allow for overtaking.

A relatively inexpensive option (see below) would be to have a dedicated busway on/off ramp in the centre median just after the main Mount Barker Freeway interchange that then runs parallel to the existing railway corridor (so as to preserve the integrity of the actual railway itself) to the town centre. This likely would need to be done on the northern side as the southern side is a bit more built up.

[1NEEDS2POST]

We discussed a more interesting solution in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6340 Realistically, the most that will happen is they paint some bus lanes on Glen Osmond Road and the freeway.

[Spotto]

Well certainly dedicated buses on the freeway is going to be faster and a hell of a lot cheaper to implement than building a new railway line. Of course I'd love to see a railway line to Mount Barker, but the practical reality it's far from economical and the most economical option would be to implement a dedicated busway style system in place instead. Not an O-Bahn, but a simple roadway that is reserved exclusively for buses, with more frequent stopping patterns than the O-Bahn, but with dedicated inverts at stops to allow for overtaking.

A relatively inexpensive option (see below) would be to have a dedicated busway on/off ramp in the centre median just after the main Mount Barker Freeway interchange that then runs parallel to the existing railway corridor (so as to preserve the integrity of the actual railway itself) to the town centre. This likely would need to be done on the northern side as the southern side is a bit more built up.

You're missing the point, the solution is BOTH rail and a dedicated busway working to compliment each other. Even with a new busway you can only fill buses up so much, and likewise only a certain number of people will be able to use the train.

If the Seaford extension and rail projects in Victoria are anything to go by: if you have a significant populated area with a lack of good transport, build it and they will come.

[Spotto]

From today's Advertiser: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... cc541d4273

Transport heavyweights Rod Hook, Luigi Rossi, John Hill back calls for passenger rail in the Adelaide Hills

A state-government commissioned report into Hills transport needs has been slammed as misleading by industry heavyweights who claim data had been cherry picked to suit the Liberal Government’s anti-rail stance.
Lydia Kellner
February 12, 2022

A report into the transport needs of Hills residents has been slammed as misleading by industry experts who claim data had been “cherry picked” to suit the state government’s anti-rail stance.

Former Planning, Transport and Infrastructure boss Rod Hook, transport heavy hitter Luigi Rossi and SA Transport Action Group Chair John Hill have called on the government to consider further research into passenger rail after a study by Infrastructure SA claimed it would not meet consumer needs.

The study indicated money would be better spent in expanding existing bus services and claimed travel by rail would take over 70 minutes from Mt Barker to the city.

However, independent research conducted by SATAG and Mr Rossi shows travel by rail would take no more than 50 minutes.

A time estimate has been backed by former Australian National Rail engineer and Mt Barker local Douglas McCarty.

The trio has also questioned the study’s $250m cost estimate to run a service on the existing Australian Rail Track Corporation line, stating it could be done for $150m.

Mr Rossi said the only way to settle the dispute was to conduct a trial.

“One thing we want to be very clear on is, stop cherry picking data and let’s get a detailed assessment done before a final decision is made,” he said.

“So before we jump onto this bandwagon that rail is not a solution, let’s do a trial. Let’s run a train down to the city and let’s see how long it will take.”

Mr Hook, who currently serves on the board of Infrastructure Australia, said passenger rail needed to be on the cards to service Mt Barker’s growing transport needs.

“No one is saying that we need to spend a billion dollars on rail in the next budgets but the reality is that there’s an election and needs to be on the agenda,” Mr Hook said.

“If you want to do a short term solution, to show rail works, buy some decent rolling stock.

“I believe this would demonstrate that you can get down in the morning in about 50 minutes which is the same time you spend in a bus or longer if there’s congestion or an accident on the South East Freeway.”

Transport Minister Corey Wingard would not comment on whether he’d consider running a trial on the existing rail line.

“ISA engaged independent engineering firm WSP to conduct a thorough review and technical assessment of all rail options,” he said.

“They determined a new heavy rail corridor would cost around $6b and using the existing ARTC line would have a travel time of at least 70 minutes to the Adelaide Railway Station,” Mr Wingard told The Advertiser.

[SBD]

From today's Advertiser: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... cc541d4273

Transport heavyweights Rod Hook, Luigi Rossi, John Hill back calls for passenger rail in the Adelaide Hills

A state-government commissioned report into Hills transport needs has been slammed as misleading by industry heavyweights who claim data had been cherry picked to suit the Liberal Government’s anti-rail stance.
Lydia Kellner
February 12, 2022
...
Mr Rossi said the only way to settle the dispute was to conduct a trial.

“One thing we want to be very clear on is, stop cherry picking data and let’s get a detailed assessment done before a final decision is made,” he said.

“So before we jump onto this bandwagon that rail is not a solution, let’s do a trial. Let’s run a train down to the city and let’s see how long it will take.”
...

So...

To "conduct a trial", they would need to:

• Procure a modern diesel railcar
• Convert the track between Mount Barker and Mount Barker Junction to standard gauge
• Reinstate the level crossings on that section (five, I think)
• install dual gauge track from the ARTC Nairne Junction (Adeaide Gaol) into Adelaide Station
• recreate junctions at Mount Barker Junction and Nairne Junction, including the applicable signalling
• Negotiate track access with ARTC and platform access with SteamRanger

That's pretty much everything needed to establish the service, except for a few extra railcars and somewhere to service and store them, and maybe some more crossing loops to reduce conflicts with freight train schedules.

I guess if you can get them to do that much "for a trial", there's not much left to make it permanent!

[Spotto]

So...

To "conduct a trial", they would need to:

• Procure a modern diesel railcar
• Convert the track between Mount Barker and Mount Barker Junction to standard gauge
• Reinstate the level crossings on that section (five, I think)
• install dual gauge track from the ARTC Nairne Junction (Adeaide Gaol) into Adelaide Station
• recreate junctions at Mount Barker Junction and Nairne Junction, including the applicable signalling
• Negotiate track access with ARTC and platform access with SteamRanger

That's pretty much everything needed to establish the service, except for a few extra railcars and somewhere to service and store them, and maybe some more crossing loops to reduce conflicts with freight train schedules.

I guess if you can get them to do that much "for a trial", there's not much left to make it permanent!

I think the trial they're referring to is an empty test run from Adelaide Parklands Terminal to Mount Barker Junction on the ARTC track to test how fast a theoretical service would be. They'll probably just estimate how long it would take for a train to get from Mount Barker Junction to Mount Barker Station.

It currently takes loco-hauled Overland approximately 50-60 minutes to go from Mount Barker Junction to Keswick (see ARTC timetable below). Adding the 5km from Mount Barker Junction to Mount Barker Station, but with a faster 3000 class DMU it would surely take around that long or less (The Overland around 5 minutes to run between Mount Barker Junction and Balhannah, a similar distance for Mount Barker Junction to Station).

A passenger trial could possibly interchange with a dedicated BG shuttle at Goodwood so that passengers can go right through to ARS, APT is a horrendously inconvenient terminus for a commuter service.

https://www.artc.com.au/uploads/MTP_202 ... SA-300.pdf

[Joelmark]

Combining this commuter rail with the strategic vision of the CBD underground loop (using the reserved cutting near the Morphett St bridge and SAHMRI) could make it a game-changer. Will cost billions though.