Federal election 2022

[Nort]

The massive gains Labor saw in WA will probably have defense consequences. I imagine they'll be heavily support WA industry with things like submarine contracts to try and keep some of them.

[Nort]

Also another time to be grateful we live in a peaceful democracy.

In 2019 I was unhappy with the unexpected outcome as were lots of people, but the Coalition win was recognized peacefully.

In 2022 I'm happy with the results, lots of people on the other side won't be, but still we have seen a peaceful transition of power where the new PM is sworn in 36 hours after the polls close and the largest concession scandals are losing candidates not using their successors names.

[rev]

Interesting that the results are being painted as pro-climate change.

Both Labor and Liberal lost primary vote.

The Greens picked up primary vote, with just over 1.3 million votes.

OneNation, UAP, LibDems, AusFed picked up primary vote too. That's nearly 1.3 million votes between them.

Another 600,000~ votes for the Independent candidates.

I think the results are that more people are fed up with the major parties in general, then any one particular issue being the cause.

We also have Bob Katters Australian Party sitting in federal parliament with 44,000~ votes and Centre Alliance with 28,000~ votes (they had small swings against them), but OneNation with 572,000~ votes, UAP with 485,000~ votes, LibDems with 197,000~ votes, Animal Justice Party with 63,000~ votes and AusFed party with 44,000~ votes and not able to win any seats it seems.

Perhaps it would be better if some of these alternative parties merged and provided a real third option instead of splitting the vote, there seems to be plenty of support for them and quite a few of their policies dont seem too dissimilar that they couldn't find common ground and became a bit more appealing to more of the population.

[rev]

The massive gains Labor saw in WA will probably have defense consequences. I imagine they'll be heavily support WA industry with things like submarine contracts to try and keep some of them.

Well with almost all of the seats in metro Adelaide going to Labor, Sturt is the only one in doubt at the moment I think but is leaning towards Liberal last I checked, it will be interesting to see how Labor handles the new subs fiasco.

Build them in Adelaide or WA?
Nuclear or non-nuclear?

[HiTouch]

Interesting that the results are being painted as pro-climate change.

Both Labor and Liberal lost primary vote.

The Greens picked up primary vote, with just over 1.3 million votes.

OneNation, UAP, LibDems, AusFed picked up primary vote too. That's nearly 1.3 million votes between them.

Another 600,000~ votes for the Independent candidates.

I think the results are that more people are fed up with the major parties in general, then any one particular issue being the cause.

We also have Bob Katters Australian Party sitting in federal parliament with 44,000~ votes and Centre Alliance with 28,000~ votes (they had small swings against them), but OneNation with 572,000~ votes, UAP with 485,000~ votes, LibDems with 197,000~ votes, Animal Justice Party with 63,000~ votes and AusFed party with 44,000~ votes and not able to win any seats it seems.

Perhaps it would be better if some of these alternative parties merged and provided a real third option instead of splitting the vote, there seems to be plenty of support for them and quite a few of their policies dont seem too dissimilar that they couldn't find common ground and became a bit more appealing to more of the population.

Problem with a lot of these fringe parties uniting is that they contain very "all or nothing" views that clash with each other. There are uncompromising nuances between UAP and OneNation. UAP is focussed on issues relating to protectionism but is a little more liberal towards Immigration, where OneNation was literally founded on a hardline approach towards immigration. If they merged together, it would dilute their political goals as well as the personalities behind these goals. Can you imagine Clive wanting to share a party stage with Pauline?

In saying that, they will probably be united in regards to anything against Labor soooooo... I can imagine them forming a clear faction. Such as those you see in European parliaments.

[Nort]

Interesting that the results are being painted as pro-climate change.

Both Labor and Liberal lost primary vote.

The Greens picked up primary vote, with just over 1.3 million votes.

OneNation, UAP, LibDems, AusFed picked up primary vote too. That's nearly 1.3 million votes between them.

Another 600,000~ votes for the Independent candidates.

I think the results are that more people are fed up with the major parties in general, then any one particular issue being the cause.

We also have Bob Katters Australian Party sitting in federal parliament with 44,000~ votes and Centre Alliance with 28,000~ votes (they had small swings against them), but OneNation with 572,000~ votes, UAP with 485,000~ votes, LibDems with 197,000~ votes, Animal Justice Party with 63,000~ votes and AusFed party with 44,000~ votes and not able to win any seats it seems.

Perhaps it would be better if some of these alternative parties merged and provided a real third option instead of splitting the vote, there seems to be plenty of support for them and quite a few of their policies dont seem too dissimilar that they couldn't find common ground and became a bit more appealing to more of the population.

With the numbers are they are right now, it looks like Labors primary vote went down primarily because of people supporting the independent challengers to Liberal incumbents. Across all other seats then Labors vote went up slightly along with a national increase to the Greens.

[rev]

One Nation & UAP are both about putting Australia first.

1. Both want policy to support Australian jobs above all else.
2. Both want to increase funding for education and improve the education system to boost our ranking internationally
3. Both support looking further into nuclear energy, both believe our resources should be used to benefit Australians. Both support affordable energy.
4. Both believe in increasing pensioner support.
5. Both have varying levels of opposition to the mandates & lockdowns - both support our constitutional rights in that regard.
6. Both support improving our national health care systems in various ways.

Australian Federation Party also supports improving our education system.
It also supports putting Australia first, and supporting our industries.
They are also against the mandates and lockdowns and border closures.

LibDems are against mandates & lockdowns.
They support cheaper electricity, and nuclear power.
They support an improved education system, they differ on HECS with UAP though.

These are just a few things off the top of my head from what I posted earlier, that they either agree on or are very similar.

There is compromise that can be had between them, to either form a new third major party, or at least form a coalition.
UAP & PHON had policies about "in government we will do this...", so clearly they want to be in government. Alone they'll never achieve that, together they might, the smaller LibDems & AusFeds would gain a bigger platform where they can push some of their agenda.
If I was them, I'd be seriously looking at it. 1.3 million voters between them, a swing towards them from the last elections.
UAP had the most funding of all parties, even beating Labor & Liberal this election. PHON wasn't doing too badly in funding either. Combined I think they'd be a bit of a force that the two majors would have to take seriously and treat very differently besides "put them last" on how to vote cards.

Liberals & the Nationals don't agree on everything, they compromise on everything from policy to whose going to take which senior ministerial positions.
No reason why the right wing populist parties like PHON & UAP can't do it.

I also think the system in general needs a look at. 1.3 million people voted for some very similar parties, in the case of UAP & PHON that's a million voters.
Yet they have zero representation in parliament, while other parties are in parliament with a few tens of thousands of votes.

[rev]

Interesting that the results are being painted as pro-climate change.

Both Labor and Liberal lost primary vote.

The Greens picked up primary vote, with just over 1.3 million votes.

OneNation, UAP, LibDems, AusFed picked up primary vote too. That's nearly 1.3 million votes between them.

Another 600,000~ votes for the Independent candidates.

I think the results are that more people are fed up with the major parties in general, then any one particular issue being the cause.

We also have Bob Katters Australian Party sitting in federal parliament with 44,000~ votes and Centre Alliance with 28,000~ votes (they had small swings against them), but OneNation with 572,000~ votes, UAP with 485,000~ votes, LibDems with 197,000~ votes, Animal Justice Party with 63,000~ votes and AusFed party with 44,000~ votes and not able to win any seats it seems.

Perhaps it would be better if some of these alternative parties merged and provided a real third option instead of splitting the vote, there seems to be plenty of support for them and quite a few of their policies dont seem too dissimilar that they couldn't find common ground and became a bit more appealing to more of the population.

With the numbers are they are right now, it looks like Labors primary vote went down primarily because of people supporting the independent challengers to Liberal incumbents. Across all other seats then Labors vote went up slightly along with a national increase to the Greens.

It wasn't just the independents that saw a swing towards them but the right wing populist parties that I mentioned in the above post.
It wasn't just about climate change, it was also about many people being fed up with the major parties in general.

Between the Greens and the right wing populists, that's 2.7 million votes, throw in the independents...and you have a huge amount of the population that's dissatisfied to say the least with Labor & Liberal. Labor & Liberal only polled around 3-4 million votes each in total.

[rubberman]

One Nation & UAP are both about putting Australia first.

LOL. One Nation is about making money for Pauline Hanson and buying influence for Palmer so he can get more mines approved.

They just cobbled together some slogans and simplistic policies with little chance of working, designed to attract people who don't really understand how bad their policies are.

Artificially fixed mortgages and tariffs are crazy. Damaging. Unworkable. They just listen to what people want to hear, then spew that back as "policy". Nuts. Completely unhinged.

[rev]

One Nation & UAP are both about putting Australia first.

LOL. One Nation is about making money for Pauline Hanson and buying influence for Palmer so he can get more mines approved.

They just cobbled together some slogans and simplistic policies with little chance of working, designed to attract people who don't really understand how bad their policies are.

Artificially fixed mortgages and tariffs are crazy. Damaging. Unworkable. They just listen to what people want to hear, then spew that back as "policy". Nuts. Completely unhinged.

LOL yeh, because the two major party's aren't telling people what they want to here during a campaign either. They're being honest aren't they rubberman?

Who said government fixed mortgage rates was a good idea? I certainly didn't.
Is it any less of a bad idea as the government taking on debt to buy 40% of first home buyers homes? Or any less of a bad idea as the government allowing people to raid their super accounts to buy a house and fuck them selves out of a retirement?

You called them bat shit crazy over two of their policies. I posted them, and they didn't match with your claims. You ignored that, and still do, and deflect.

You're acting as if UAP or PHON would be a complete and utter disaster as government (and they might well be). But it's not as if the endless change between Labor and Liberal, supported by the Greens & Nationals, hasn't been a disaster for the average Australian who now can't afford to buy a new home, struggles to make ends meet, struggles to buy groceries and pay utilities bills, struggles to put fuel in their car, struggles to pay for private health insurance or be forced to wait for years for procedures in the public system....

Labor and Liberal have been fan-fucking-tastic haven't they

[rubberman]

One Nation & UAP are both about putting Australia first.

LOL. One Nation is about making money for Pauline Hanson and buying influence for Palmer so he can get more mines approved.

They just cobbled together some slogans and simplistic policies with little chance of working, designed to attract people who don't really understand how bad their policies are.

Artificially fixed mortgages and tariffs are crazy. Damaging. Unworkable. They just listen to what people want to hear, then spew that back as "policy". Nuts. Completely unhinged.

LOL yeh, because the two major party's aren't telling people what they want to here during a campaign either. They're being honest aren't they rubberman?

Who said government fixed mortgage rates was a good idea? I certainly didn't.
Is it any less of a bad idea as the government taking on debt to buy 40% of first home buyers homes? Or any less of a bad idea as the government allowing people to raid their super accounts to buy a house and fuck them selves out of a retirement?

You called them bat shit crazy over two of their policies. I posted them, and they didn't match with your claims. You ignored that, and still do, and deflect.

You're acting as if UAP or PHON would be a complete and utter disaster as government (and they might well be). But it's not as if the endless change between Labor and Liberal, supported by the Greens & Nationals, hasn't been a disaster for the average Australian who now can't afford to buy a new home, struggles to make ends meet, struggles to buy groceries and pay utilities bills, struggles to put fuel in their car, struggles to pay for private health insurance or be forced to wait for years for procedures in the public system....

Labor and Liberal have been fan-fucking-tastic haven't they

ON literally had tariffs as one of their policies. Tariffs are batshit crazy.

Similarly, Clive had 3% max mortgages as a policy. Also batshit crazy.

Those were two examples. I didn't bother to go further because once proven to be nut cases, I didn't need to prove them even sillier.

As for whether they are worse than the two major parties, what's the point of looking at a third or fourth party if it is no better, and arguably worse than the two majors.

What we have now, with a much expanded cross bench, comprised of some very credentialed women, is far better than the absolutely stupid quockerwodgers of ON and UAP.

[rev]

ON literally had tariffs as one of their policies. Tariffs are batshit crazy.

Similarly, Clive had 3% max mortgages as a policy. Also batshit crazy.

Those were two examples. I didn't bother to go further because once proven to be nut cases, I didn't need to prove them even sillier.

As for whether they are worse than the two major parties, what's the point of looking at a third or fourth party if it is no better, and arguably worse than the two majors.

What we have now, with a much expanded cross bench, comprised of some very credentialed women, is far better than the absolutely stupid quockerwodgers of ON and UAP.

I see you've dropped your complaint about PHON's foreign ownership policy.

Ahh, had to slip Clives 3% fixed mortgage rate policy in there. Guess you had to try give your argument some extra credibility, why you chose that when nobody else said it was a good idea I don't know. But A for effort I suppose.

Here is PHON's policy on tariffs...

Foreign Ownership
One Nation will pursue urgent reform to Australia’s foreign investment rules by legislating a clear definition of ‘National Interest' based on national security, competition, tax, a character test, and any other impacts to Australia. Essential services including power, water, telecommunications, roadways, and ports would be off-limits to foreign investors. With a crucial shortage of housing stock in Australia, we must stop the sale of property to non-residents and non-citizens.

World Organisations And Trade Agreements
The Australian Constitution must be upheld at all times and not undermined by United Nations forums and its 193 member states. One Nation does not support the World Economic Forum’s 'Great Reset'.

Free Trade Agreements that function against the best interest of Australian’s must also be scrapped. Import tariffs should be reimplemented on select countries to protect Australia's remaining industry and manufacturing while safeguarding homegrown jobs and wage levels.

You're not exactly being honest with your simple "explanation" that it's a bad idea or bat shit crazy.
Not exactly the tariffs on everything you implied by purposely being deceitful.

What were they advocating for tariffs to be implemented on? Foreign made cars? No. On goods coming into the country that compete against our own locally made goods.

So you think it's crazy to protect Australian jobs? Good to know.

[rev]

Lol imagine trying to pretend you care about government spending when you spent time arguing for why the government should spend nine figure sums on bullying gay people.

Grow the fuck up you child.

[rubberman]

ON literally had tariffs as one of their policies. Tariffs are batshit crazy.

Similarly, Clive had 3% max mortgages as a policy. Also batshit crazy.

Those were two examples. I didn't bother to go further because once proven to be nut cases, I didn't need to prove them even sillier.

As for whether they are worse than the two major parties, what's the point of looking at a third or fourth party if it is no better, and arguably worse than the two majors.

What we have now, with a much expanded cross bench, comprised of some very credentialed women, is far better than the absolutely stupid quockerwodgers of ON and UAP.

I see you've dropped your complaint about PHON's foreign ownership policy.

Ahh, had to slip Clives 3% fixed mortgage rate policy in there. Guess you had to try give your argument some extra credibility, why you chose that when nobody else said it was a good idea I don't know. But A for effort I suppose.

Here is PHON's policy on tariffs...

Foreign Ownership
One Nation will pursue urgent reform to Australia’s foreign investment rules by legislating a clear definition of ‘National Interest' based on national security, competition, tax, a character test, and any other impacts to Australia. Essential services including power, water, telecommunications, roadways, and ports would be off-limits to foreign investors. With a crucial shortage of housing stock in Australia, we must stop the sale of property to non-residents and non-citizens.

World Organisations And Trade Agreements
The Australian Constitution must be upheld at all times and not undermined by United Nations forums and its 193 member states. One Nation does not support the World Economic Forum’s 'Great Reset'.

Free Trade Agreements that function against the best interest of Australian’s must also be scrapped. Import tariffs should be reimplemented on select countries to protect Australia's remaining industry and manufacturing while safeguarding homegrown jobs and wage levels.

You're not exactly being honest with your simple "explanation" that it's a bad idea or bat shit crazy.
Not exactly the tariffs on everything you implied by purposely being deceitful.

What were they advocating for tariffs to be implemented on? Foreign made cars? No. On goods coming into the country that compete against our own locally made goods.

So you think it's crazy to protect Australian jobs? Good to know.

I explained before why tariffs were crazy. You have not, despite plenty of opportunity, given one reason how or why they could work. Therefore I conclude you have no reason. They do not protect jobs overall. They may protect jobs in one area and then destroy them in others, especially exports. This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of most economists and of experience in the real world of trade. Hand waving at the Constitution with absolutely no logical linkage to how anyone has done anything unconstitutional is another example of crazy batshittery. Trade negotiations are entirely constitutional.

Keep swinging for these loonies. Zero seats for Clive, and Pauline is close to losing her seat. The majority of Australians aren't taken in at all by these fools.

[SBD]

While "buy Australian" is a great marketing campaign, I'm not convinced it should be mandated - either at the production or ownership level.

• If we ban foreign investment in Australia, then we should similarly not permit Australian investment overseas (or expect the foreign country not permit it). This reduces the ability for investment to diversify
• It reduces competition and innovation. For example we would be restricted to buying electricity from AGL and Origin (retail and generation) instead of Neoen (Hornsdale wind farm and battery, Goyder), Iberdrola (Port Augusta Renewal Energy Park and Lake Bonney wind farm+battery), Nexif Energy (Lincoln Gap wind farm), Engie (Pelican Point), Enel Green Power (Bungala solar farm)
• What Australian-built vehicles are available - buses, trucks and Bushmaster infantry vehicles.

Government should be setting policy support to assist an Australian company to either start up or "pivot" to making electric cars in Australia, but not restrict the opportunity for a foreign company to import or manufacture in Australia or provide investment funds and technology into the venture.

Same for developing technology to use waste plastic instead of coal for the manufacture of steel.

If we are to ban live export of meat (sheep were in the news today, cattle have been previously) then we need to develop an Australian export industry in self-contained battery-powered refrigerated shipping containers (including small ones) to keep the meat fresh at the places where live meat is preferred for handling and storage reasons.