My Adelaide Road & Rail Plan

[Aidan]

This is my transport plan for Adelaide - Heavy Rail : Stage 1 (2010-2018) resleeper all metropolitan lines,

As that's already being done, there's no point mentioning it in your plan.

electricify all metropolitan lines, refurbish and electrify existing 3000/3100 railcars and buy new Comeng railcars.

Unfortunately that would be extremely difficult, as Comeng no longer exists!

I would put it off until 2010 as this will allow Adelaide to investigate new railcars.

You'd put it off for a month? Or did you write this plan ages ago?

Bus: Retire all non-mobility buses and replace with new mobility buses (e.g. Scania & MAN)

All new uses are low floor anyway, so you're not really suggesting anything new.

& upgrade bus interchanges.

What kind of upgrades are you proposing?

Light Rail: No extensions at this stage, buy new trams.

Why no extensions at this stage, and how many new trams are you suggesting?

[fabricator]

electricify all metropolitan lines, refurbish and electrify existing 3000/3100 railcars and buy new Comeng railcars.

Unfortunately that would be extremely difficult, as Comeng no longer exists!

Comeng = Commonwealth Engineering 1946-1983
It's now part of Bombardier Transportation.

As a point of interest, not all of the 3000/3100 class were built by Comeng, as they were taken over before the contract was finished and about half were made by Clyde GM as a result.

Besides which, you don't want more railcars like the Comeng/3000 class, they crumple like tinfoil in collisions.
see http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=su ... ection=sss <- note runaway train with no one on board.

[Aidan]

Comeng = Commonwealth Engineering 1946-1983
It's now part of Bombardier Transportation.

But not a recognisable part!

As a point of interest, not all of the 3000/3100 class were built by Comeng, as they were taken over before the contract was finished and about half were made by Clyde GM as a result.

Are you sure? I thought only the first 20 (built to supplement the fleet) were made by Comeng, and the other 50 (built to replace the Red Hens) were made by Clyde on a separate contract.

Besides which, you don't want more railcars like the Comeng/3000 class, they crumple like tinfoil in collisions.
see http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=su ... ection=sss <- note runaway train with no one on board.

Considering the collision speed (75km/h) it's hardly surprising that it crumpled. Poor crashworthiness wasn't really the problem - the problem was that it could run away in the first place.

[fabricator]

Besides which, you don't want more railcars like the Comeng/3000 class, they crumple like tinfoil in collisions.
see http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=su ... ection=sss <- note runaway train with no one on board.

Considering the collision speed (75km/h) it's hardly surprising that it crumpled. Poor crashworthiness wasn't really the problem - the problem was that it could run away in the first place.

Are you joking, the entire drivers cab has been crushed down to nothing, the railcar is about 2m shorter at the front, well some of it was flung inside the passenger area as well.
Besides which its not inconceivable a train could have an accident at those speeds normally, top speed is 90km for our version.

Look at the damage to the N class locomotive, its a bit bent but not reduced to a foil container.

[Aidan]

Besides which, you don't want more railcars like the Comeng/3000 class, they crumple like tinfoil in collisions.
see http://www.vicsig.net/index.php?page=su ... ection=sss <- note runaway train with no one on board.

Considering the collision speed (75km/h) it's hardly surprising that it crumpled. Poor crashworthiness wasn't really the problem - the problem was that it could run away in the first place.

Are you joking, the entire drivers cab has been crushed down to nothing, the railcar is about 2m shorter at the front, well some of it was flung inside the passenger area as well.
Besides which its not inconceivable a train could have an accident at those speeds normally, top speed is 90km for our version.

'Tis pretty near inconceivable - hitting it going that fast would require the driver to not apply the brakes until about five seconds from impact!

Look at the damage to the N class locomotive, its a bit bent but not reduced to a foil container.

Locomotives have to be much tougher - for a start they have to negotiate ungated level crossings, so collisions can almost be expected, whereas in the suburbs you can expect the track to be clear except where the signals show otherwise. Any obstruction on the track is likely to be much smaller, and nowhere near as damaging to the train.

[Straze]

This is my transport plan for Adelaide - Heavy Rail : Stage 1 (2010-2018) resleeper all metropolitan lines,

As that's already being done, there's no point mentioning it in your plan.

electricify all metropolitan lines, refurbish and electrify existing 3000/3100 railcars and buy new Comeng railcars.

Unfortunately that would be extremely difficult, as Comeng no longer exists!

I would put it off until 2010 as this will allow Adelaide to investigate new railcars.

You'd put it off for a month? Or did you write this plan ages ago?

Bus: Retire all non-mobility buses and replace with new mobility buses (e.g. Scania & MAN)

All new uses are low floor anyway, so you're not really suggesting anything new.

& upgrade bus interchanges.

What kind of upgrades are you proposing?

Light Rail: No extensions at this stage, buy new trams.

Why no extensions at this stage, and how many new trams are you suggesting?

Firstly my transport plan i put in this thread i have done it as if none of these proposals that the Labor Government have proposed are there. If i was the decision maker this is what i would do. Secondly, you will be right in saying that Comeng no longer exist they are now with Bombardier Transportation, so if i were to choose a new railcar for Adelaide i would look at all manufacturers and decide what i think would suit our heavy rail network. Thirdly, if i were to replace buses i would start by retiring all Mercedes-Benz O305 & O305G, if it means a shortage of O-Bahn buses i would lease any bus thats suitable for the O-Bahn or put some of the MAN SL202s back on it untill the new ones arrive. I suggest the SL202s because they still have years left before retirement but then again other buses could also be put back on.

[Straze]

Elizabeth Station - Layout of interchange will be changed to accommodate buses more easier all buses will enter from southern entrance and exit via the northern entrance and will either go on the left roadway (city) or the right roadway (feeder), a new fully undercover shelter with seating, security cameras and improved lighting.

[Aidan]

Elizabeth Station - Layout of interchange will be changed to accommodate buses more easier all buses will enter from southern entrance and exit via the northern entrance and will either go on the left roadway (city) or the right roadway (feeder), a new fully undercover shelter with seating, security cameras and improved lighting.

How would such a big change make it easier to accommodate buses?
Wouldn't it make more sense for the feeder buses to use the left roadway (as it's nearer the railway)?

And have you considered building a second platform face for City bound trains (like at Noarlunga) to make it easier for bus passengers?

[Straze]

One of the problems i find with Elizabeth Interchange its not designed right, for example Zone E & F there is no way you can get 2 articulated bus at once as you have to turn left tight to get into the stop. Aidan when i decided which side buses go on i was thinking more about the type of buses the city routes would use i.e articulated but with more feeder services it would be more wise for them to go close to the station. If there is the need to expand the interchange how much would it be to buy McDonalds to allow more room.

[Straze]

Salisbury Interchange - The bus interchange area will be upgraded with a new fully undercover shelter, better lighting, security cameras and new pedestrian crossing or footbridge at northern end of the station. The upgrades aim to improve the image of this public transport hub by improving comfort, visibility, safety and security.

[Straze]

I am seeking any information about the terrain or obstacles between Glen Osmond and Stirling as i want to know if there is anyway a railway could be built along here, i am thinking of a new metropolitan railway line to Mount Barker which will run underneath Glen Osmond Road then come up at ground level near Urrbrae then via Stirling, Aldgate, Hahndorf then Mount Barker. Any helpful information, constructive comments or questions i would appreciate.

[Aidan]

I am seeking any information about the terrain or obstacles between Glen Osmond and Stirling as i want to know if there is anyway a railway could be built along here, i am thinking of a new metropolitan railway line to Mount Barker which will run underneath Glen Osmond Road then come up at ground level near Urrbrae then via Stirling, Aldgate, Hahndorf then Mount Barker. Any helpful information, constructive comments or questions i would appreciate.

Google Earth is the most useful tool, but it helps to have a topographic map as well. You can get a map with 10m contours by going to http://atlas.sa.gov.au/, choosing the region of Metropolitan Adelaide, selecting Physical Geography from the Natural Environments pop up menu, zooming in, and switching on Detailed 10m Contours if it isn't already on. Also switch on Detailed Roads, and I suggest switching off EnvSA Relief. Then click Refresh Map.

And from that you can see that constructing a railway from Urrbrae to Stirling would at best be extremely difficult!

BTW it really helps if you actually go there rather than just relying on maps.

[PeFe]

Whilst the introduction of electric trains will undoubtably boost the appeal of the Adelaide train network there is still the problem
of the actual stations themselves-old rundown buildings or sheds that are graffiti ridden and strewn with rubbish and provide liitle protection against the elements or timetable information. These stations at night do not provide a safe atmosphere for waiting commuters. I consider the Gawler line to probably be the least appealing suburban rail line in this country.
Of course the answer to this is $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and lots of it but it is something the SA government should consider
with the refurbishment of the train network. Ironically somewhere like Los Angeles shows some sort of solution-when building
their new heavy rail/light rail lines a lot of money was put into station design so much so that some of the stations have become
architectural icons (check out Los Angeles Metro page on subways/metro forum on SSC) and visually appealing to the masses to get them out of their cars and try out the new train system.

[Norman]

Station upgrades are part of the upgrade packages for the rail lines. Examples include the Hallett Cove, Hallett Cove Beach, Eden Hills, Blackwood and Coromandel stations.

[Westside]

somewhere like Los Angeles shows some sort of solution

LA has the worst PT in the world, even Adelaide has more public transport train lines than LA! I would not be looking to there for any PT advice.