PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

[Xaragmata]

Part of parapet wall removed, and reinforcing in place for new central deck in Port Road railway bridge - Thursday 8 October 2009

[jk1237]

they have finally bitumised most of North Tce, so eastbound traffic can finally start to use the 2 new lanes, so work can start in the middle

[gumbi]

Do you think they will actually scrap the idea of having trams and trains running on the same carriage way? I think it is a terrible idea! Imagine the issues with express trains running from Outer Harbour etc. It seems much more sensible to continue the tram way down the centre of Port Road with a connection to West Lakes.

[Xaragmata]

Do you think they will actually scrap the idea of having trams and trains running on the same carriage way? I think it is a terrible idea! Imagine the issues with express trains running from Outer Harbour etc. It seems much more sensible to continue the tram way down the centre of Port Road with a connection to West Lakes.

It is a good question, but I don't have an easy answer. It must be tempting to convert the Outer Harbor & Grange lines to light rail, but
pointless to upgrade the Commercial Road viaduct if it will be bypassed - tram-trains seem to have been abandoned, but trams & trains
on the same corridor suggests dual voltage trams (600 VDC / 25KVAC) at a minimum, just to serve new tram lines to Sema4 & West Lakes.

The cheap option is probably a light rail conversion of the existing lines from the connection at Bowden, with the heavy rail from city to
Bowden being abandoned - eliminating the crossings of the ARTC line & Park Tce in the process. Additional tram spurs can be added as
necessary to West Lakes & Sema4. I suspect the Entertainment Centre will be the terminus for some time, while the Government decides
what to do next.

[how_good_is_he]

What I still cant get my head around is the trams only fit 200 or so - so in the years to come if we need to move say 10,000+ people on public transport in say one hour [ie from AAMI stadium or workers to city etc] - how many trams will we need running and how many road delays for others waiting at tram crossings? Wont this mean even more gridlock for our roads in the long term? My point is - is this just a band-aid solution and they will need to look at an underground/overhead solution etc in 10 - 20 years time anyway?

[muzzamo]

What I still cant get my head around is the trams only fit 200 or so - so in the years to come if we need to move say 10,000+ people on public transport in say one hour [ie from AAMI stadium or workers to city etc] - how many trams will we need running and how many road delays for others waiting at tram crossings? Wont this mean even more gridlock for our roads in the long term? My point is - is this just a band-aid solution and they will need to look at an underground/overhead solution etc in 10 - 20 years time anyway?

You could use coupled or long trams, as well as signals during peak periods so that trams dont cross intersections more than once every 5 minutes (and you could give the peak direction priority). I think our platforms could be modified to support longer trams without too much relative cost.

[Shuz]

Maybe they should look into eliminating level crossings alongside the entire corridor, where otherwise the trams would run on the road. That means underpasses/overpasses at all the road crossings on Port Road. Cost prohibitive, really.

This project it seems, as it gets closer and closer to its actual opening is looking more and more like a white elephant to me. Hope I'm proven wrong.

[Wayno]

Maybe they should look into eliminating level crossings alongside the entire corridor, where otherwise the trams would run on the road. That means underpasses/overpasses at all the road crossings on Port Road. Cost prohibitive, really.

This project it seems, as it gets closer and closer to its actual opening is looking more and more like a white elephant to me. Hope I'm proven wrong.

it's called planning. Infrastructure leading Demand - very temporary 'white elephant' at worst...

[skyliner]

Maybe they should look into eliminating level crossings alongside the entire corridor, where otherwise the trams would run on the road. That means underpasses/overpasses at all the road crossings on Port Road. Cost prohibitive, really.

This project it seems, as it gets closer and closer to its actual opening is looking more and more like a white elephant to me. Hope I'm proven wrong.

it's called planning. Infrastructure leading Demand - very temporary 'white elephant' at worst...

Agree with Wayno. The government is'nt all a bunch of deadheads.Planning and visioning based on realistic extrapolations and risk parametres would be enmeshed with the development. It's the only viable explanation I have. My preference would have been a city loop followec by 'Oconnell St.

SA - STATE ON THE MOVE

[fabricator]

What I still cant get my head around is the trams only fit 200 or so - so in the years to come if we need to move say 10,000+ people on public transport in say one hour [ie from AAMI stadium or workers to city etc] - how many trams will we need running and how many road delays for others waiting at tram crossings? Wont this mean even more gridlock for our roads in the long term? My point is - is this just a band-aid solution and they will need to look at an underground/overhead solution etc in 10 - 20 years time anyway?

Its not just you, I can't see it working myself.

Grange to Adelaide is a 1 hour return trip, which means we would need enough tram-trains to carry 10,000 people (50 trams), but the government have ordered enough for 3,000 (15 trams). Plus those 15 tram-trains are also to operate the Semaphore - Port Adelaide tram services too.

The current trams are 30m long, which means 1.5km of trams over the network. And likely 10% or 5 trams at one of the end stations. I can see big bottlenecks at the AAMI Stadium end, especially as its single track from Woodville.

There is no way to send all those trams via Port Road/North Terrace, and trams can't use high level platforms designed for Trains. To spell that out replacing trains with trams, also means replacing all the platforms, or building special tram only platforms. The obvious downside of having both tram and train only platforms its passengers moving between them.

We have more than enough trains to carry 10,000 people, and it was always planned to use the corridor to West Lakes for Heavy Rail. The only reason it hasn't happened is the usual NIMBY types.

[jk1237]

It would be a good question as to how many people would use a train or tram from Football Park to the city. With all the footy express buses, people living in the north and outer south would still use their buses rather than go into the city and out. The new trams bought cater for the new Hindmarsh extension only. Once they extend it further they would obviously need to get more trams, so enough trams serving AAMI is not an issue yet
If they did turn the entire corridor into light rail, I would bet it would be double track to West Lakes.

My wish is to keep the corridor as heavy rail, close Grange line from Albert Park and divert it to AAMI/West Lakes Mall, and make the new tram extension go right into the heart of the new Bowden TOD, but its starting to get obvious that the OH line will turn to light rail

[monotonehell]

Grange to Adelaide is a 1 hour return trip, which means we would need enough tram-trains to carry 10,000 people (50 trams)

Can you explain where this figure comes from?

[Prince George]

Honestly, needing to move 10,000 passengers in an hour is the problem we want to have. If we reach the point that between 5-6PM we have 10,000 people in the CBD wanting to catch the Grange line tram, then we have crossed some kind of milestone to being an urban centre we can hardly imagine now.

[Norman]

I would expect there to be some kind of announcement regarding the future of the Port Adelaide tram line as we get closer to the election. Let's just wait and see

[fabricator]

Grange to Adelaide is a 1 hour return trip, which means we would need enough tram-trains to carry 10,000 people (50 trams)

Can you explain where this figure comes from?

I was quoting 'how_good_is_he' something which you removed, so get stuffed troll.

Seeing as Hindmarsh Stadium is also
The Soccer matches at Hindmarsh get numbers like these:
18 Sep 2009 - Adelaide United vs Melbourne Victory Hindmarsh Stadium - 15038
21 Aug 2009 - Adelaide United vs Gold Coast United Hindmarsh Stadium - 12741
5 Oct 2009 - Adelaide United vs Newcastle Jets Hindmarsh Stadium - 12090

http://messenger-news.whereilive.com.au ... -stand-up/
"On crowd numbers, it's been suggested the disappointing turnout of just 37,000 at AAMI stadium for Adelaide's elimination final against Collingwood"